UT Law if looking to practice in NY? Forum

[Nucky]

Can I ask where you lived in Texas? I've heard only positive things about Austin (less traffic), pretty good stuff about San Antonio and Dallas, and shit about Houston and everywhere else.

I lived in one of the major cities. Don't get me wrong. Texas isn't Nebraska(no offense to Nebraska). It is a great place to work and make money(that's why I lived there), plus the cost of living is low, and there is no state income tax. But you will not find anything close to the natural beauty of Cali, Florida, the PNW, Appalachians, etc. nor will you find the major historical attractions you will find in other major cities. Skiing being countless hours drive away, and the political extremism is also a big turn-off for me. Frankly, the only thing to do here is drink. Which is fun and all, but I feel like EVERY activity in Texas revolves around alcohol. That being said, Austin is almost certainly the most livable city in Texas, but I still find it a bit young/hipsterish, and though that doesn't bother me now it probably would when I'm 40 with a family.

That'll happen. Same deal here on UG. Sorry for the low blow, but it seemed like you were trying to be a douche. I don't think many would disagree that, if you were getting a very large finaid package from Fordham, that it wouldn't be a better option for OP's goals. (Though, Cornell, maybe even at sticker (depending on Fordham $) would be a better option.)

It's all good, man. Wasn't trying to be a douche, but yeah I get a bit testy with people who twist my words, and/or cherry pick my statements. It's the internet and I imagine that most of us are at work. A little debating is usually a welcome distraction, and fun. So I figure what the hell? UT students and alum always seem to be a willing bunch.

[jkpolk]

UT > Fordham

[BigZuck]

I counted 3 UT students who responded, one might have overstated UT's awesomeness a bit (although I get why considering he felt the need to counteract the Nuckiness ITT), the other two offered very fair and measured assessments of the school. I don't think anyone was/is butthurt about their decision to attend. Two of them ended up with jobs, the other one is a 1L who could have happily chased national prestige somewhere else if he so desired.

I don't get why you feel the need to repeatedly rage against the TLS machine Nucks, I really don't. It's weird.

OP- don't go to UT with the intention of snagging NY big law. That's what the T14 is for.

[MistakenGenius]

Post removed.

[BigZuck]

Anyone have any insight into going to UT with NY Biglaw in mind? Is this a dumb move? Got a scholarship to Fordham, but I know UT is a much better school.

Yes, it's a dumb move. UT is not a "much better school." T1 rankings mean very little outside the T14. In T1, outside the T14, go to the best school in the region you want to practice in. The exceptions are schools like ND, Emory, Vandy, WUSTL(kind of) with some national prestige(and even then it can be difficult to leave the immediate area). Texas does not have national prestige. Texas does as well as it does because Texas has a strong job market. Not because it is some bastion of superior intellectual thought.

Although Nucky might be right that you should choose Fordham over UT if you want to work in NYC, I don't agree with the rest of his post. UT has a better national reputation than ND, Emory, Vandy, and WUSTL.

Although I would also probably say Texas is slightly better than Fordham, though New York Biglaw is a long shot from either (I'd guess top third from either). That said, Texas isn't worth that much more $ than Fordham since Fordham does put almost 1/3 of its class into Biglaw. However, to say that Texas has a better national reputation than Vanderbilt is the dumbest thing I've heard today. What evidence are you basing this on? Vanderbilt is well-known across the country as an excellent school. Texas is a damn good school and is well-regarded by us in the legal profession, but laypeople think of it as a rather standard state school. But since we're talking legal reputation, Vandy is far more selective and places a higher percentage of its class in Biglaw and a higher percentage in clerkships. It also sends its students across the country. Texas students are overwhelmingly placed in their own insular state. You made a good point, but you went too far including Vanderbilt, and I question Emory, though not enough to challenge that assertion.

Also, Will Mcavoy, anyone who uses the term public-ivey seriously instantly loses my respect. The Ivey league is an athletic conference. To use public ivey, is, at best, a Napoleon complex like Nucky said, and at worst, delusional. Seriously, just let UT speak for itself. The law school definitely punches way above its weight class. It's something to be proud of.

Finally, OP, let me just say, if you truly want New York Biglaw, neither of these schools is a great option. I highly recommend you pursue Cornell or retake and go after NYU or Columbia. T14 students even stuggle to get New York Biglaw, so you should give yourself every advantage you can.

With the exception of 2011 (the dark days that were probably less unkind to a tiny school as opposed to a fairly large one), UT has been within a couple percentage points of Vanderbilt. It's meaningless to draw granular distinctions like that, IMO. Ditto admissions numbers, as if that mattered.

I highly doubt that the majority of firms would have lower cut offs for Vanderbilt than they would for UT. They're basically the same school (placement wise), except that one is in TX and one is in TN. I would also throw UCLA, USC into that mix.

"Prestige" is an amorphous term that's impossible to pin down. As far as legal employers go, I get the sense that the schools are the same. They are ranked around the same every year and they place around the same every year. As for lay prestige, depends on who you ask. I'm going to go ahead and speak for all west-coasters when I say that when people hear UT they think "pretty good public school/Vince Young" and when people hear Vanderbilt they have a vague notion of "probably a pretty good private school/sounds expensive."

Also, none of this matters.

[rickgrimes69]

BZ is the only one in this thread who knows what he is talking about fyi

OP- don't go to UT with the intention of snagging NY big law. That's what the T14 is for.

TCR

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

Also, Will Mcavoy, anyone who uses the term public-ivey seriously instantly loses my respect. The Ivey league is an athletic conference. To use public ivey, is, at best, a Napoleon complex like Nucky said, and at worst, delusional. Seriously, just let UT speak for itself. The law school definitely punches way above its weight class. It's something to be proud of.

Anyone who misspells "ivy" in a tirade against the "ivey league" "seriously instantly" loses my respect.

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

Also, Will Mcavoy, anyone who uses the term public-ivey seriously instantly loses my respect. The Ivey league is an athletic conference. To use public ivey, is, at best, a Napoleon complex like Nucky said, and at worst, delusional. Seriously, just let UT speak for itself. The law school definitely punches way above its weight class. It's something to be proud of.

Anyone who misspells "ivy" in a tirade against the "ivey league" "seriously instantly" loses my respect.

[Attax]

You guys have really picked up that line and ran with it. I was only pointing out the possibility due to what I have heard from TX attorneys/graduates trying to leave the state, and from some people up north who I have spoken with that did not know I was from the south. I did not try to quantify that fact with data as bagel suggests, or even treat is as an unequivocal fact.

As for the comparison to the other schools, Fordham does place better in biglaw than UT, and obviously in NY, and though I have not looked at the numbers recently I remember seeing data which reflected that schools like ND, WUSTL, etc did place more of their graduates OOS in far reaching places, like CA, than UT does. Is it self-selection? Is it prestige? I dont know, but the numbers are what they are.

Take a tissue 'Horns, geez. This isn't about UT's prestige, or your 'issues', this is about Fordham v UT for NYC big law.

I think you should also consider the markets that ND and WUSTL are located. For these schools students have to be more willing to go far to secure a job, not the case from Texas where they have at least 2 major markets to be one of the top picks for. And, as another poster pointed out, 65% of the class must come from Texas, meaning most will probably self-select into Texas over your far reaching markets.

[StillCutty]

However, to say that Texas has a better national reputation than Vanderbilt is the dumbest thing I've heard today

Nonsense...Vanderbilt is the SMU of Tennessee. Take from that what you will.

OP why do you want NY biglaw? Texas biglaw is the same money (actually more since you won't be taxed as hard) and an arguably better quality of life. Heard plenty of stories about NY biglaw bros wishing they had Texas ties so they could go work there. If you have the ties, it would prolly be wise to consider....

Unless NY Biglaw has some job opp you can't do elsewhere.... If thats the case, you should obviously go to school there.

[McAvoy]

Also, Will Mcavoy, anyone who uses the term public-ivey seriously instantly loses my respect. The Ivey league is an athletic conference. To use public ivey, is, at best, a Napoleon complex like Nucky said, and at worst, delusional. Seriously, just let UT speak for itself. The law school definitely punches way above its weight class. It's something to be proud of.

One, I take it that wasn't a typo since you used it three times?

Two, I didn't say the term "Public Ivy" was a meaningful, serious, or even good way to classify schools. It might just be the region where I'm from (where most of the prefstigous schools are public), but I was only saying that, anecdotally, the term is thrown around a lot here (in a sincere way), and UT is included in that group.

Three, you are saying that people only reference (or are supposed to only reference) the Ivy League when speaking of athletics? All right then...

[bpc2110]

Not yet.

You should have a good shot at Cornell, hear anything yet?

That would be your best bet

[bpc2110]

Thanks to all for the insight. Definitely going to take it all into account.

[crit_racer]

I'm a UT 3L going to NYC biglaw. I don't think it's any harder to get NY biglaw than TX biglaw. You're gonna need top quarter grades either way, but IME top quarter also gives you a fair shake at NYC. I went into OCI w/ top 20% grades and had no problem getting NYC offers. I've lived in Texas my whole life, and the firms didn't really care. Basically when asked, I just said i need to GTFO texas and they understood.

However, I would NOT go to UT expecting NYC biglaw. I came in with that goal, but since I'm from Texas I was fine staying if I had to and doing shitlaw or w/e (which is a distinct possibility). I think if your goal is to do NYC biglaw you just need to retake. Fordham is risky and so is UT.