Top Law Schools

Notes:
- Location isn't a big deal to me. I want to move; as long as it's a large-ish, fun city, I don't care where.
- I have ties to a regional market that is not insular (would be easy to move back with any of these degrees). No ties to any of these regions.
- SO will cover living expenses.
- SO and I would live apart if Cornell, so add on living expenses.
- Small amount of SL debt at present.

Career goals:
- I'm not very ambitious nor motivated by money. I want to get a job that I find at least mildly rewarding that allows for a good work-life balance. Something in Government/Administrative Law is most desirable at this point.
- Lay/academic prestige is important; I want (high level) grad school to be an option a few years down the line if I dislike being an attorney. These are all clearly good schools, but it's a factor to consider.

-- Out of retakes

I appreciate any advice!

Courtesy of cotiger:

cotiger wrote:For some reason, I'm really digging doing this right now.

So that other people can better assist Mr. McAvoy, here are the estimated debts at repayment:

Vanderbilt - $80,000
Texas - $85,000
USC - $115,000
Cornell - $295,000

Vandy's scholly was assumed to be a 30/30/20 distribution, others with equal splits. Debt-financed COL of $8k/yr was used for USC, per OP's estimation. Tuition+fees was assumed to increase at the same rate it has increased over the last 5 years.

Texas or Vanderbilt.

You're saying you want the option of academia? That's definitely not happening.

Everything else sounds like you just want to go to school and have fun and don't care about big law chances, so I choose UT and failing that, Vandy.

You're not going to get very good answers because you didn't tell us how much these schools cost (scholarship numbers are meaningless, as is our conjecture as to how much you would spend on COL). If you haven't thought about exactly how much each school would cost I suggest doing that.

As a general matter I wouldn't attend UCLA, UT, or Vandy without pre-existing ties to the regions that they place in but YOLO I guess.

BigZuck wrote:You're saying you want the option of academia? That's definitely not happening.

Everything else sounds like you just want to go to school and have fun and don't care about big law chances, so I choose UT and failing that, Vandy.

You're not going to get very good answers because you didn't tell us how much these schools cost (scholarship numbers are meaningless, as is our conjecture as to how much you would spend on COL). If you haven't thought about exactly how much each school would cost I suggest doing that.

As a general matter I wouldn't attend UCLA, UT, or Vandy without pre-existing ties to the regions that they place in but YOLO I guess.

Academia not in law, obviously.

I have calculated cost of living -- you're right, I should have said so more clearly. UT/Vandy are essentially identical in COL, and their tuition is very comparable. My SO will be able to cover living in either. USC's added COL will likely negate the scholarship bump and require us to have some COL loans.

I'm not terribly concerned about not having ties as, like I said, I know it wouldn't be too difficult to get a job in my current region with any of these degrees, if all else fails.

Will_McAvoy wrote:

BigZuck wrote:You're saying you want the option of academia? That's definitely not happening.

Everything else sounds like you just want to go to school and have fun and don't care about big law chances, so I choose UT and failing that, Vandy.

You're not going to get very good answers because you didn't tell us how much these schools cost (scholarship numbers are meaningless, as is our conjecture as to how much you would spend on COL). If you haven't thought about exactly how much each school would cost I suggest doing that.

As a general matter I wouldn't attend UCLA, UT, or Vandy without pre-existing ties to the regions that they place in but YOLO I guess.

Academia not in law, obviously.

I have calculated cost of living -- you're right, I should have said so more clearly. UT/Vandy are essentially identical in COL, and their tuition is very comparable. My SO will be able to cover living in either. USC's added COL will likely negate the scholarship bump and require us to have some COL loans.

I'm not terribly concerned about not having ties as, like I said, I know it wouldn't be too difficult to get a job in my current region with any of these degrees, if all else fails.

If you're going to stick with "cost doesn't matter, location doesn't matter, I'll get a job, not gunna retake" then all I'm left with is "Fun" and so I think you should definitely YOLO yourself down to Austin. It's a great city.

I totally understand ducking the cost of attendance issue and saying you don't have any more retakes because you want to avoid the inevitable but you haven't really given us much to work with here, and therefore you're not going to get very valuable feedback.

BigZuck wrote:
If you're going to stick with "cost doesn't matter, location doesn't matter, I'll get a job, not gunna retake" then all I'm left with is "Fun" and so I think you should definitely YOLO yourself down to Austin. It's a great city.

I totally understand ducking the cost of attendance issue and saying you don't have any more retakes because you want to avoid the inevitable but you haven't really given us much to work with here, and therefore you're not going to get very valuable feedback.

Yeah, that's really not unfair. The three seem pretty interchangeable as far as job prospects and costs go. It basically comes down to what city/living situation/other softs everyone would recommend.

For each, I'm looking at 60-70K in debt (assuming I can't negotiate a bigger scholly), which seems to be a reasonable amount to take on when expecting a median employment outcome. I think any of the three are defensible choices for someone unconcerned with mad prefstige.

Will_McAvoy wrote:

BigZuck wrote:
If you're going to stick with "cost doesn't matter, location doesn't matter, I'll get a job, not gunna retake" then all I'm left with is "Fun" and so I think you should definitely YOLO yourself down to Austin. It's a great city.

I totally understand ducking the cost of attendance issue and saying you don't have any more retakes because you want to avoid the inevitable but you haven't really given us much to work with here, and therefore you're not going to get very valuable feedback.

Yeah, that's really not unfair. The three seem pretty interchangeable as far as job prospects and costs go. It basically comes down to what city/living situation/other softs everyone would recommend.

For each, I'm looking at 60-70K in debt (assuming I can't negotiate a bigger scholly), which seems to be a reasonable amount to take on when expecting a median employment outcome. I think any of the three are defensible choices for someone unconcerned with mad prefstige.

Agree, 60-70k debt for these schools is fine.

I have never been to Nashville but I have heard its fun. I'm very familiar with both Austin and LA and Austin>>>>>than LA in my opinion.

BigZuck wrote:
Agree, 60-70k debt for these schools is fine.

I have never been to Nashville but I have heard its fun. I'm very familiar with both Austin and LA and Austin>>>>>than LA in my opinion.

I am really not well traveled and have never been to either of the three (LA when I was like 10). I'm touring Nashville this month, and am still up in the air on the second visit. Thanks for your input on Austin over LA!

For some reason, I'm really digging doing this right now.

So that other people can better assist Mr. McAvoy, here are the estimated debts at repayment:

Vanderbilt - $80,000
Texas - $85,000
USC - $115,000
Cornell - $295,000

Vandy's scholly was assumed to be a 30/30/20 distribution, others with equal splits. Debt-financed COL of $8k/yr was used for USC, per OP's estimation. Tuition+fees was assumed to increase at the same rate it has increased over the last 5 years.

vandy/ texas...

BigZuck wrote:

Will_McAvoy wrote:

BigZuck wrote:
If you're going to stick with "cost doesn't matter, location doesn't matter, I'll get a job, not gunna retake" then all I'm left with is "Fun" and so I think you should definitely YOLO yourself down to Austin. It's a great city.

I totally understand ducking the cost of attendance issue and saying you don't have any more retakes because you want to avoid the inevitable but you haven't really given us much to work with here, and therefore you're not going to get very valuable feedback.

Yeah, that's really not unfair. The three seem pretty interchangeable as far as job prospects and costs go. It basically comes down to what city/living situation/other softs everyone would recommend.

For each, I'm looking at 60-70K in debt (assuming I can't negotiate a bigger scholly), which seems to be a reasonable amount to take on when expecting a median employment outcome. I think any of the three are defensible choices for someone unconcerned with mad prefstige.

Agree, 60-70k debt for these schools is fine.

I have never been to Nashville but I have heard its fun. I'm very familiar with both Austin and LA and Austin>>>>>than LA in my opinion.

This is very much your opinion, and possibly exclusively your opinion my bro

That being said, UT is still probably the stronger choice.

cotiger wrote:For some reason, I'm really digging doing this right now.

So that other people can better assist Mr. McAvoy, here are the estimated debts at repayment:

Vanderbilt - $80,000
Texas - $85,000
USC - $115,000
Cornell - $295,000

Vandy's scholly was assumed to be a 30/30/20 distribution, others with equal splits. Debt-financed COL of $8k/yr was used for USC, per OP's estimation. Tuition+fees was assumed to increase at the same rate it has increased over the last 5 years.

You rock. Thanks.

I'm going to avoid grad-plus loans at all costs, though. If I'm unable to make up the difference with my own assets, I am likley able to loan small amounts from my parents at a lower interest rate to make up the difference. That doesn't substantially change what you've done, but it'll make a nice dent in the long run.

Will_McAvoy wrote:

cotiger wrote:For some reason, I'm really digging doing this right now.

So that other people can better assist Mr. McAvoy, here are the estimated debts at repayment:

Vanderbilt - $80,000
Texas - $85,000
USC - $115,000
Cornell - $295,000

Vandy's scholly was assumed to be a 30/30/20 distribution, others with equal splits. Debt-financed COL of $8k/yr was used for USC, per OP's estimation. Tuition+fees was assumed to increase at the same rate it has increased over the last 5 years.

You rock. Thanks.

I'm going to avoid grad-plus loans at all costs, though. If I'm unable to make up the difference with my own assets, I am likley able to loan small amounts from my parents at a lower interest rate to make up the difference. That doesn't substantially change what you've done, but it'll make a nice dent in the long run.

Yeah, doesn't change it too much. At UT, for instance, you'd only be taking out about $14,000 in GradPLUS. If we change those to no-interest loans, debt at repayment still rounds to $85,000. (Reduces from $86k to $84k)

cotiger wrote:
Yeah, doesn't change it too much. At UT, for instance, you'd only be taking out about $14,000 in GradPLUS. If we change those to no-interest loans, debt at repayment still rounds to $85,000. (Reduces from $86k to $84k)

I meant we should hopefully have enough to simply pay the difference out of pocket, at least for the first two/three semesters, which should keep it at ~70. If we're unable to pay the difference, then a family loan would probably be the route before gradPLUS.

Will_McAvoy wrote:

cotiger wrote:
Yeah, doesn't change it too much. At UT, for instance, you'd only be taking out about $14,000 in GradPLUS. If we change those to no-interest loans, debt at repayment still rounds to $85,000. (Reduces from $86k to $84k)

I meant we should hopefully have enough to simply pay the difference out of pocket, at least for the first two/three semesters, which should keep it at ~70. If we're unable to pay the difference, then a family loan would probably be the route before gradPLUS.

Oh, gotcha. Just so you know, though, GradPLUS aren't like monstrously more expensive than Stafford. Only one percentage point. Significant, sure, but I dunno if it makes much sense to draw a big red line for it.

jbagelboy wrote:

BigZuck wrote:

Will_McAvoy wrote:

BigZuck wrote:
If you're going to stick with "cost doesn't matter, location doesn't matter, I'll get a job, not gunna retake" then all I'm left with is "Fun" and so I think you should definitely YOLO yourself down to Austin. It's a great city.

I totally understand ducking the cost of attendance issue and saying you don't have any more retakes because you want to avoid the inevitable but you haven't really given us much to work with here, and therefore you're not going to get very valuable feedback.

Yeah, that's really not unfair. The three seem pretty interchangeable as far as job prospects and costs go. It basically comes down to what city/living situation/other softs everyone would recommend.

For each, I'm looking at 60-70K in debt (assuming I can't negotiate a bigger scholly), which seems to be a reasonable amount to take on when expecting a median employment outcome. I think any of the three are defensible choices for someone unconcerned with mad prefstige.

Agree, 60-70k debt for these schools is fine.

I have never been to Nashville but I have heard its fun. I'm very familiar with both Austin and LA and Austin>>>>>than LA in my opinion.

This is very much your opinion, and possibly exclusively your opinion my bro

That being said, UT is still probably the stronger choice.

Austin is five >'s better than LA, that's simply an objective truth. He wants honest feedback/advice, not the random musings of an unabashed homer.

Seriously though, I think LA has a lot of great self-contained spots connected by an endless sea of traffic. Austin is a lot easier to get around and the awesomeness is all around. Plus, the food is better and the booze is cheaper, and both these things matter to me. Probably too much.

The consensus is clearly VU or UT and I agree. Just visit UT and Vandy and figure out which is the better fit for you and SO. I prefer Nashville, but Austin is also fun.

Sounds good, thanks guys. I'm really excited to tour.

Probably the most important factor: What's the craft beer scene like in Nashville/Austin?

k

Will_McAvoy wrote:Sounds good, thanks guys. I'm really excited to tour.

Probably the most important factor: What's the craft beer scene like in Nashville/Austin?

Can't speak to Austin, but I've lived in Nashville for a couple years now. They have a local brewery called Yazoo, which I definitely like but I've also had better--doesn't compare to Great Lakes in Cleveland, for example.

As far as Nashville goes generally, its a moderately liberal city in a very red state. Very cosmopolitan, many young people living here that have relocated from around the country. There are lots of great little neighborhoods and I have found plenty of restaurants I love. That said, I think Nashville is fun to visit because of the unique bar scene, but I have enjoyed living in other cities more. I also don't like country music, nor do I like going to bars haha. But you should definitely visit and you'll get a general feel for the place!

Will_McAvoy wrote:Sounds good, thanks guys. I'm really excited to tour.

Probably the most important factor: What's the craft beer scene like in Nashville/Austin?

--LinkRemoved--

Blackstar is pretty good!

Will_McAvoy wrote:Sounds good, thanks guys. I'm really excited to tour.

Probably the most important factor: What's the craft beer scene like in Nashville/Austin?

There are tons of awesome breweries in and around Austin. There's a huge craft beer scene. Craft Pride on Rainey has exclusively texas craft beers, plus a food truck in the backyard with some of the best pizza of all time.

Will_McAvoy wrote:Sounds good, thanks guys. I'm really excited to tour.

Probably the most important factor: What's the craft beer scene like in Nashville/Austin?

In addition to BlackStar

http://www.independencebrewing.com/ (Free beer/tours/music every first Saturday - bring your own pint glass or buy one there)

http://austinbeerworks.com/

http://www.512brewing.com/

https://realalebrewing.com/

http://www.liveoakbrewing.com/

http://jesterkingbrewery.com/

http://www.hopsandgrain.com/

And soon to return after a too-long absence, Celis:
http://www.austinchronicle.com/food/201 ... t-belongs/

[partial list]

Not to mention the brew pubs and other establishments brewing their own:

NXNW
Pinthouse Pizza
Billy's BBQ & Brew
ABGB

[also a partial list]

ETA: Here you go: http://www.austinbeerguide.com/

shifty_eyed wrote:some of the best pizza of all time.

Did not know this. This is important information.