Best school for breaking into the PNW Forum

[notactuallyposting]

Curious what the consensus is on breaking into the pacific northwest market WITHOUT ties? UW's employment scores in general make it seem like a bad call for somebody who can break into the T10.

Given Stanford and Boalt locations, they seem like a good bet, as well as Yale and maybe Harvard, but that is my gut and is not based on any substantive evidence.

Thanks in advance!

[rinkrat19]

A lack of ties is going to hurt you. If you are at a top school and your grades are good, they're going to have a hard time believing that you want to stay there long-term. Going to a regional school (UW, L&C) with significant scholarship money (both are historically stingy, however) you are demonstrating some intent to stay, but are also boned if you don't get tiptop grades.

Plus, consider that the PNW does not consider itself a single region. Oregon and Washington are very separate markets, and there's not a ton of crossover. You can try to make the argument that Boalt/Stanford are west coast, and that's certainly better than going to UVA, but even northern California is very 'other' to people in Portland and Seattle. The Cali schools probably do better in Seattle than Portland (obviously, since PDX is such a tiny market).

The good news is that you can go to a top school and focus on the PNW AND another market(s) for backup, since there won't be a ton of PNW employers at your OCI and you'll mostly be pursuing them via mass mailing anyway.

Consider that I was born in the Seattle area but have lived in the Portland area since I was 5. I go to NU, and when interviewing for Portland jobs they ask me why I ever left for law school. I got very little response looking for Seattle jobs, but when I did get a response, they expressed doubt over whether I'd be willing to move my permanent home from Portland to Seattle. That's how insular the markets are.

Best case scenario: top school like HYS/Boalt (also a fair number of Michigan people end up in the PNW, but they may be area natives returning after law school), good grades, a 1L summer in the market, write your journal comment on something PNW-related, vacation there, be able to talk about it like you've lived there all your life, and also job search in your backup market(s).

[notactuallyposting]

A lack of ties is going to hurt you. If you are at a top school and your grades are good, they're going to have a hard time believing that you want to stay there long-term. Going to a regional school (UW, L&C) with significant scholarship money (both are historically stingy, however) you are demonstrating some intent to stay, but are also boned if you don't get tiptop grades.

Plus, consider that the PNW does not consider itself a single region. Oregon and Washington are very separate markets, and there's not a ton of crossover. You can try to make the argument that Boalt/Stanford are west coast, and that's certainly better than going to UVA, but even northern California is very 'other' to people in Portland and Seattle. The Cali schools probably do better in Seattle than Portland (obviously, since PDX is such a tiny market).

The good news is that you can go to a top school and focus on the PNW AND another market(s) for backup, since there won't be a ton of PNW employers at your OCI and you'll mostly be pursuing them via mass mailing anyway.

Consider that I was born in the Seattle area but have lived in the Portland area since I was 5. I go to NU, and when interviewing for Portland jobs they ask me why I ever left for law school. I got very little response looking for Seattle jobs, but when I did get a response, they expressed doubt over whether I'd be willing to move my permanent home from Portland to Seattle. That's how insular the markets are.

Best case scenario: top school like HYS/Boalt (also a fair number of Michigan people end up in the PNW, but they may be area natives returning after law school), good grades, a 1L summer in the market, write your journal comment on something PNW-related, vacation there, be able to talk about it like you've lived there all your life, and also job search in your backup market(s).

Awesome, thanks for the advice! I am now in at Berk, Chi, and Harvard, no word from S. Looking to minimize debt for flexibility with my family so will be choosing based on COA. Since my backup market will be northern california (which is also tricky), B or S seem like the best route. I would never risk going to UW ITE.

Will it help that my wife is badass and can secure a tech job in pretty much any city in the world? She can get a job in Seattle with a phone call, but obviously wouldnt do that until after I graduate. If she has an awesome job in Seattle, does that count as a "tie"?

[rinkrat19]

If she HAS the job/job offer in hand, yes, that is a tie. Not just a potential job, no matter how certain it is.

[sidhesadie]

Lifelong Oregonian, agree with everything rinkrat said.

Particularly that there is no "PNW" for people that actually live here. Seattle and Portland are very insular. UW does not place any better in PDX than the three Oregon schools. Willamette far outperforms its rank in-state. L&C does the best, followed closely by UofO. People are very loyal to their alma mater. I'd guess the same goes the other direction in Washington.

Harvard/Yale will probably help you out, but you'll still need awesome grades and ties. Generally, I've heard a lot of Stanford-dislike locally. (I'm in PDX, at L&C). I'm not sure a California school would serve you that well in Oregon...*maybe* Berkeley. It's the most in line with Oregon's general attitude. Oregonians often display a visceral dislike of anything related to California. And honestly, good luck getting a job out of Stanford from a Duck fan. Really.I know it sounds silly. But, I've discussed Ducks/Beavers in multiple job interviews.

I think Seattle is a little more open than Portland, and have more larger firms and as such are probably more likely to take an out of state grad, particularly if your wife has a job in hand. I think they might hate Stanford less, too.

[rinkrat19]

And honestly, good luck getting a job out of Stanford from a Duck fan. Really.I know it sounds silly. But, I've discussed Ducks/Beavers in multiple job interviews.

This is mostly because Duck fans are ginormous dickbags. A Beaver fan wouldn't be as irrational.

[worldtraveler]

I am no expert on this, but I can't think of a single person from Berkeley who went to OR or WA without having lived there before law school.

[Jchance]

I am no expert on this, but I can't think of a single person from Berkeley who went to OR or WA without having lived there before law school.

OR you can simply choose Berkeley, hipster up during your three years and try to sell your hipster-self into Seatle culture, they might buy it

[notactuallyposting]

Lifelong Oregonian, agree with everything rinkrat said.

Particularly that there is no "PNW" for people that actually live here. Seattle and Portland are very insular. UW does not place any better in PDX than the three Oregon schools. Willamette far outperforms its rank in-state. L&C does the best, followed closely by UofO. People are very loyal to their alma mater. I'd guess the same goes the other direction in Washington.

Harvard/Yale will probably help you out, but you'll still need awesome grades and ties. Generally, I've heard a lot of Stanford-dislike locally. (I'm in PDX, at L&C). I'm not sure a California school would serve you that well in Oregon...*maybe* Berkeley. It's the most in line with Oregon's general attitude. Oregonians often display a visceral dislike of anything related to California. And honestly, good luck getting a job out of Stanford from a Duck fan. Really.I know it sounds silly. But, I've discussed Ducks/Beavers in multiple job interviews.

I think Seattle is a little more open than Portland, and have more larger firms and as such are probably more likely to take an out of state grad, particularly if your wife has a job in hand. I think they might hate Stanford less, too.

Thanks for the input. Sheesh, sounds like if Seattle is the end-game you either need to be born and raised in Seattle or attend school at UW. But attending school at UW is risky on its own, especially with offers from t10 schools.

Guess I will wait to hear from S. If that's a No then I'll choose between H and B (pending $), and hope I am one of the lucky ones to break into our dream city (Seattle).

Anybody out there with experience breaking into Seattle from out of state?