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ASU$$$ v. UMN$$ v. WUSTL $$(edit:add wustl with negotiation)
Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:06 am
by ipseattlehopeful
Ok. TLS. Here are my best options for school. I am hoping to go into the IP field. I have a B.S. in biochemistry and I am very interested in returning to Seattle after I graduate. I am initially interested in IP work, however I am open for other fields of law. Seattle is currently a bigger goal than IP. Big law is not necessarily a goal. I'm fine with midlaw.
GPA: 3.39, Biochemistry
LSAT: 167 (taken twice, first time 163)
Here are my schools options, scholarships, and COA:
ASU (full tuition, assuming I get Arizona residency my second and third years) - COA: $66,000
University of Minnesota (32.5K a year) - COA: $94,000
WUSTL (33k a year, (was 12k but negotiated to 33k) - COA: $113,000
Before anyone asks, I was wait-listed at UW. Otherwise it would have been my first choice. I have some cash for school and I will be able to cover some tuition and possibly housing depending on my choice.
EDIT:
Added COA, added WUSTL, removed ND and W&M, and revised expectations (lol)
Re: ASU ($$$) v. UofMinn ($$) v. ND($) v. W&M ($$)
Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:14 am
by superflush
1. Have you familiarized yourself with what kind of patent law jobs people from all of those schools have been able to get? And what kind of grades were necessary to do so?
2. How strapped for cash are you? Able to pay a big part of the tuition at any of those schools, or do you need to take loans for everything?
Re: ASU ($$$) v. UofMinn ($$) v. ND($) v. W&M ($$)
Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:19 am
by Nova
None of those schools are a good look for getting back to Seattle. They're all strong/decent regionals that aren't going to be much help finding a job outside their feeder market.
You should retake for T14 if you're Seattle or bust
Re: ASU ($$$) v. UofMinn ($$) v. ND($) v. W&M ($$)
Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:23 am
by superflush
Nova wrote:None of those schools are a good look for getting back to Seattle.
None of those schools are prestigious at all. They're all strong/decent regionals that aren't going to be much help finding a job outside their feeder market.
If you're cool with living in Arizona long term, ASU is your best offer.
You should retake for T14 if you're Seattle or bust
I don't think this is accurate for patent law. If OP does relatively well at any of these schools, he/she should have options at the Loyola Patent (assuming that the undergrad major and background is in demand, which I am not particularly familiar with).
Re: ASU ($$$) v. UofMinn ($$) v. ND($) v. W&M ($$)
Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:25 am
by Nova
I more concerned that they want to be back in Seattle
Eta: those T1s are all a wash. Since asu is closest and cheapest, its probably the best option besides retaking.
Re: ASU ($$$) v. UofMinn ($$) v. ND($) v. W&M ($$)
Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:27 am
by superflush
Nova wrote:I more concerned that they want to be back in Seattle
Right. I agree that none of those schools are feeders for the Seattle market.
This is more of a niche question for patent law jobs.
Normally I would say that one should go the best school they can, or go to the best school in the market they want.
However, patent law jobs are a different game completely. I know enough to know its a different game, but not enough to know what happens when someone with X major, at X law school, wants to work in X market.
That being said, OP, what about Seattle U?
Re: ASU ($$$) v. UofMinn ($$) v. ND($) v. W&M ($$)
Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:34 am
by Nova
Yeah I know next to nothing about IP hiring besides that at my school the cutoffs are lower and your odds of getting a desirable job with good grades are better.
Still, generally, I don't think there is enough diffence in quality/reputation/prospects between the schools OP is choosing from to make any worth much more than ASU.
Re: ASU ($$$) v. UofMinn ($$) v. ND($) v. W&M ($$)
Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:41 am
by ipseattlehopeful
superflush wrote:Nova wrote:I more concerned that they want to be back in Seattle
Right. I agree that none of those schools are feeders for the Seattle market.
This is more of a niche question for patent law jobs.
Normally I would say that one should go the best school they can, or go to the best school in the market they want.
However, patent law jobs are a different game completely. I know enough to know its a different game, but not enough to know what happens when someone with X major, at X law school, wants to work in X market.
That being said, OP, what about Seattle U?
Based on my research of IP attorneys in seattle (at the three largest IP firms) where they got their J.D. does not seem to matter very much at all. I'm in at seattle u with 22k a year.
Re: ASU ($$$) v. UofMinn ($$) v. ND($) v. W&M ($$)
Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:24 am
by superflush
ipseattlehopeful wrote:Based on my research of IP attorneys in seattle (at the three largest IP firms) where they got their J.D. does not seem to matter very much at all. I'm in at seattle u with 22k a year.
Right. This was the point I was getting at. I would want to do my research of what the experiences of grads of your prospective schools are though, if I were you. So, what is the COA difference between Seattle U and ASU?
Re: ASU ($$$) v. UofMinn ($$) v. ND($) v. W&M ($$)
Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:32 am
by ipseattlehopeful
superflush wrote:ipseattlehopeful wrote:Based on my research of IP attorneys in seattle (at the three largest IP firms) where they got their J.D. does not seem to matter very much at all. I'm in at seattle u with 22k a year.
Right. This was the point I was getting at. I would want to do my research of what the experiences of grads of your prospective schools are though, if I were you. So, what is the COA difference between Seattle U and ASU?
Seattle U would be about 116k, so about 50k difference. Not a lot of students from these schools have come to Seattle for IP, but, based on the IP firms, I'm not sure if it is because of the school's rankings or if there were just not that many students wanting to go to these schools from seattle in the first place. I will continue trying to find alums from my prospectives though and contacting them for advice.
Re: ASU ($$$) v. UofMinn ($$) v. ND($) v. W&M ($$)
Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:07 am
by superflush
ipseattlehopeful wrote:Seattle U would be about 116k, so about 50k difference. Not a lot of students from these schools have come to Seattle for IP, but, based on the IP firms, I'm not sure if it is because of the school's rankings or if there were just not that many students wanting to go to these schools from seattle in the first place. I will continue trying to find alums from my prospectives though and contacting them for advice.
Okay. So ASU is much more appealing financially.
That would be good to contact them. Patent law jobs are kind of a black box compared to most other jobs. For most jobs, you can ascertain a certain grade cutoff at each school for biglaw in certain markets, whereas patent law jobs as less well known.
Re: ASU ($$$) v. UofMinn ($$) v. ND($) v. W&M ($$)
Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:48 pm
by CanadianWolf
ASU or retake.
Re: ASU ($$$) v. UofMinn ($$) v. ND($) v. W&M ($$)
Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:52 pm
by kyle010723
Schools aside, regarding biochem and IP, I assume you will want to work with biotech or pharma, in which case a PhD in Bio is almost essential. Sometime you can get by with just a master degree, but those companies are very stingy when people dealing with Bio don't have a PhD. If you just want to do IP and don't care which field, you will be fine without an advance degree.
Re: ASU ($$$) v. UofMinn ($$) v. ND($) v. W&M ($$)
Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:21 pm
by Jchance
ipseattlehopeful wrote:Ok. TLS. Here are my best options for school. I am hoping to go into the IP field. I have a B.S. in biochemistry and I am very interested in returning to seattle after I graduate. I know the seattle market for IP is not huge, but I believe it should be big enough that I could potentially secure a position after graduation.
My GPA: 3.39 Biochemistry
LSAT: 167 (taken twice, first time 163)
Here are my schools options, scholarships, and COA:
ASU (full tuition, assuming I get Arizona residency my second and third years) - COA: $66,000
University of Minnesota (30K a year) - COA: $106,000
Notre Dame (20k a year (will try to negotiate in march to match U of M) - COA: $140,000
William and Mary (22k a year) - COA: $100,000
Before anyone asks, I was waitlisted at UW. Otherwise it would have been my first choice. I was initially interested in ASU due to the large amount of bioscientific law classes they have and their law, science, and innovation center. I was not expecting a full ride. I am in at GW but they only offered me 10k a year... D.C. is much too expensive for me to consider GW for close to sticker.
I am very interested in everyone's opinions. I am currently torn between going to a more prestigious school or coming out of school with potentially large/medium amounts of debt. I am not necessarily interested in going into "big law" and I believe I would be perfectly happy at a medium sized firm.
EDIT:
Added COA
With just a B.S. biochem degree, I would be concerned thinking about rushing to be in Seatle as a fresh law grad. Seatle market is good for in-house, but not too much IP (you can always try to lateral back there later). If you are dead set on IP, Seatle is not a good location during your early IP legal career. If you are dead set on Seatle, IP is not a good pick. Either way, that IP+Seatle combo is bad, you should choose to focus on one or retake for T14.
With that said, if you were going into IP with B.S. Biochem, I'd consider schools in San Diego, Minneapolis, Indianapolis, Chicago and some others that I cant recall right now because those locations are IP hubs for Bio/Chem folks. So if I was you, I'd strongly consider UMN over other schools (unless there is more options on the table).
Re: ASU$$$ v. UMN$$ v. WUSTL $$(edit:add wustl with negotiation)
Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:43 pm
by ipseattlehopeful
EDIT: Added wustl because of negotiations.
Re: ASU$$$ v. UMN$$ v. WUSTL $$(edit:add wustl with negotiation)
Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:03 pm
by Nomo
ipseattlehopeful wrote: Big law is not necessarily a goal. I'm fine with midlaw.
You better be ok with more than biglaw and midlaw. You're not likely to get biglaw from any of those schools and midlaw is unicorn (at least for new grads). You're looking at small firms, local gov, and maybe state gov. The LST score reports don't lie.
Second, Seattle is not an easy market to crack. You shouldn't be confident you'll find a job there.
If you're fine with doing small law in some place other than Seattle I would pick ASU. ASU at 66k is a good choice for someone who would be happy working for a small firm in Arizona. If that's not appealing to you then you absolutely should not be attending law school at this time.
Re: ASU$$$ v. UMN$$ v. WUSTL $$(edit:add wustl with negotiation)
Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:04 pm
by spleenworship
Have you considered DO/PharmD instead?