ASU ($$) v Emory ($) v Houston ($) (TX resident) Forum

[SECAggies14]

Howdy guys, looking for some input from y'all in trying to decide between these three law schools. A little background on me, I'm a Texas A&M undergrad with a 161/3.9 with 5 years of management experience, 4 of those being in retail (movie theatre) and 1 being in the fitness industry (lead employees as well as exercise physiology expertise/personal trainer).

As far as what I want to job-wise, I'm not a "big law or bust" type of guy, I honestly just want a decent paying job as a lawyer, its what I've always wanted to do and what I've worked for in my undergrad career. As far as 'decent' paying, what, like $50k a year or something as a minimum? But I realize how harsh the economy is and would basically almost take anything for the experience, etc.

I'd PREFER to work in Texas, or anywhere in the South really, because I have ties here: my family, friends, and the 'network' I've gained through Texas A&M. I'm from Dallas but have ties with numerous people through my time at A&M in the Houston and outlying area. Plus I love to hunt, fish, country boy blah blah blah.

ASU - they've offered me the most money, about 2/3 tuition covered, and the cost would go down even more if I attained AZ residency after the first year. I've got a good feeling about them and already know a few friends in the PHX area. I wouldn't go into debt. Is there even a snowball's chance in hell of getting a job in Texas out of ASU?

Emory - they've offered me about 1/3 tuition covered. However, as a private school I would likely go into a bit of debt, under 100k most likely. Georgia seems like a good 'hub' of the entire South, and Emory claims in their booklets and such that they've been known to place students in Dallas and Houston. How true is this?

Houston - it was never my first choice and I applied last second after getting wait listed at UT Austin. They've offered me a 1/3 tuition scholarship, and I wouldn't go into debt, but as a raw cost, Houston would cost more then ASU even if I never attained AZ residency. The thing that makes me consider them though is that Texas would basically be the only place I'd get a job, which is what I would prefer, but I am not dead set 100% on or I wouldn't even be considering ASU/Emory.

Disclaimer: If some how, some way I get in through the wait list at UT Austin, Vandy, or U Penn, I might just take off to one of them, if UT admits me before I have to commit somewhere I will go there for sure and just pay sticker if need be.

[BigZuck]

I go to UT. I would say sticker at UT is an objectively bad decision. But, it's a good school and it would be perfect for you.

You have to retake the LSAT. If you score 5-6 points higher you're in (probably with some scholarship money) and 10 points higher you're probably looking at a full ride, which would be your best case scenario.

I took the LSAT 3 times and jumped from your score to the high 160s. There's plenty of great resources for LSAT prep on this site, all you need to do is put in the time.

[rickgrimes69]

None of those schools are good for your goals, with the exception of UH, and none are worth what you'd be paying (no exceptions).

You're a non-trad with a killer GPA. You should retake for UT with $$$.

[SECAggies14]

Yeah, the reason I didn't retake is because I made the wrong decision in thinking getting everything in early (my apps were complete in September) would give some sort of tactical advantage, especially in the case of UT - in Binding Early Decision, then held to Regular, then wait listed.

If I were to retake I'd have to take a year off from school and just work and study for that damn thing. Its something I'm considering but am not exactly crazy about… Thanks for the input so far.

[Tiago Splitter]

Retake in June. You have plenty of time to study between then and now, and you can continue to ride those waitlists. Very possible at that time you'll end up at UT with $$$ and it will all work out. If not, wait a year. I was also five years out when I decided to retake and sit out a year. Seems tough at the time, but looking back it would have been career suicide not to.

[BigZuck]

My first cycle I was in my late twenties, had a 161, and facing UH at sticker. Retook June, made a big jump, got offered more at UH and decided to sit out and reapply.

Next cycle I got into UT with a big scholarship, not to mention 90K at places like Duke and Cornell. My gpa was good but not killer like yours.

You would do yourself and your future career a huge disservice by not retaking. Did I mention I was working in retail all that time? You can do it.

[jk148706]

My first cycle I was in my late twenties, had a 161, and facing UH at sticker. Retook June, made a big jump, got offered more at UH and decided to sit out and reapply.

Next cycle I got into UT with a big scholarship, not to mention 90K at places like Duke and Cornell. My gpa was good but not killer like yours.

You would do yourself and your future career a huge disservice by not retaking. Did I mention I was working in retail all that time? You can do it.

U are an inspiration

[BigZuck]

My first cycle I was in my late twenties, had a 161, and facing UH at sticker. Retook June, made a big jump, got offered more at UH and decided to sit out and reapply.

Next cycle I got into UT with a big scholarship, not to mention 90K at places like Duke and Cornell. My gpa was good but not killer like yours.

You would do yourself and your future career a huge disservice by not retaking. Did I mention I was working in retail all that time? You can do it.

U are an inspiration

I know it probably sounds like I made that up to fit the OP's situation but it's all actually true. The OP is basically me from two years ago, except with a better GPA.

[jk148706]

My first cycle I was in my late twenties, had a 161, and facing UH at sticker. Retook June, made a big jump, got offered more at UH and decided to sit out and reapply.

Next cycle I got into UT with a big scholarship, not to mention 90K at places like Duke and Cornell. My gpa was good but not killer like yours.

You would do yourself and your future career a huge disservice by not retaking. Did I mention I was working in retail all that time? You can do it.

U are an inspiration

I know it probably sounds like I made that up to fit the OP's situation but it's all actually true. The OP is basically me from two years ago, except with a better GPA.

In all seriousness BZ is right. Last cycle I had a similar lsat score and knew little about law school when I found TLS. Posters like BZ made me realize I had to retake if I wanted to get a decent lawyer job. I retook, have a much higher lsat score and many more opportunities. Still going to retake in June and will sit out again if need be.

BZ knows of what he speaks

[cron1834]

OP, I'm a couple years older than you (best-guess, based on respective WE) with a similar GPA. I pulled a 168 my first try this winter, and I'm not satisfied. I'm retaking in June. If you can earn a great GPA like that and function successfully in the real world for some years, you can improve on your score. No question you can.

If I was from Texas and wanted to be in Texas, no question UT would be the goal. You should shoot for as high as possible, but 168-169 with that GPA and in-state status should get you $$ from them.

[downinDtown]

Howdy guys, looking for some input from y'all in trying to decide between these three law schools. A little background on me, I'm a Texas A&M undergrad with a 161/3.9 with 5 years of management experience, 4 of those being in retail (movie theatre) and 1 being in the fitness industry (lead employees as well as exercise physiology expertise/personal trainer).

As far as what I want to job-wise, I'm not a "big law or bust" type of guy, I honestly just want a decent paying job as a lawyer, its what I've always wanted to do and what I've worked for in my undergrad career. As far as 'decent' paying, what, like $50k a year or something as a minimum? But I realize how harsh the economy is and would basically almost take anything for the experience, etc.

I'd PREFER to work in Texas, or anywhere in the South really, because I have ties here: my family, friends, and the 'network' I've gained through Texas A&M. I'm from Dallas but have ties with numerous people through my time at A&M in the Houston and outlying area. Plus I love to hunt, fish, country boy blah blah blah.

ASU - they've offered me the most money, about 2/3 tuition covered, and the cost would go down even more if I attained AZ residency after the first year. I've got a good feeling about them and already know a few friends in the PHX area. I wouldn't go into debt. Is there even a snowball's chance in hell of getting a job in Texas out of ASU?

Emory - they've offered me about 1/3 tuition covered. However, as a private school I would likely go into a bit of debt, under 100k most likely. Georgia seems like a good 'hub' of the entire South, and Emory claims in their booklets and such that they've been known to place students in Dallas and Houston. How true is this?

Houston - it was never my first choice and I applied last second after getting wait listed at UT Austin. They've offered me a 1/3 tuition scholarship, and I wouldn't go into debt, but as a raw cost, Houston would cost more then ASU even if I never attained AZ residency. The thing that makes me consider them though is that Texas would basically be the only place I'd get a job, which is what I would prefer, but I am not dead set 100% on or I wouldn't even be considering ASU/Emory.

Disclaimer: If some how, some way I get in through the wait list at UT Austin, Vandy, or U Penn, I might just take off to one of them, if UT admits me before I have to commit somewhere I will go there for sure and just pay sticker if need be.

If you want to work in TX, consider depositing Houston, retaking in June to get more money or shot at UT (next cycle). Don't see much reason to leave TX if not for a T14, but even then that's not as important since you're not gunning for BigLaw. UT ($) or UH ($$) or even SMU ($$$ - full $$$$) would give you good employment outcomes with minimal debt. Take advantage of your in-state tuition by going to UH or UT. Houston and Dallas are some of the better legal markets in the country, as the economy (and energy) has kept it boosted up (for perspective, Dallas, Houston, and Austin's economies combined are the same size as NYC, which is the biggest legal market in the world). UT has the best access to both of those markets (and a tight grip on Austin too), while SMU and UH are primarily limited to their respective cities. Use your ASU scholly to negotiate up UH too if you do decide UH is a good fit for you.

[BigZuck]

It's actually not clear to me that the OP is in fact in his mid to late 20s. He says he is in school and has management experience, but he could have acquired that while working during college.

I could be wrong however.

[cron1834]

It's actually not clear to me that the OP is in fact in his mid to late 20s. He says he is in school and has management experience, but he could have acquired that while working during college.

I could be wrong however.

Fair. I don't think that changes the answer, though.

OP, you will need to present ID before being served that drink.

[Tiago Splitter]

Don't see much reason to leave TX if not for a T14, but even then that's not as important since you're not gunning for BigLaw.

A lot of people say they're not gunning for biglaw, but once they admit they're simply looking for a "well paying legal job" you know they're gunning for biglaw. OP might not know it, but he's gunning for biglaw.

(for perspective, Dallas, Houston, and Austin's economies combined are the same size as NYC, which is the biggest legal market in the world)..

But they have about a third of the firm jobs, and an even smaller proportion if you take out small firms.

[SECAggies14]

It's actually not clear to me that the OP is in fact in his mid to late 20s. He says he is in school and has management experience, but he could have acquired that while working during college.

I could be wrong however.

You're right. I'm 22 (shows ID), and got all of my work experience during late high school and college years.

Okay, I think I'm gonna gun for that June retake while riding the wait list as well. Everyones input so far has been very helpful, thank you.

[BigZuck]

It's actually not clear to me that the OP is in fact in his mid to late 20s. He says he is in school and has management experience, but he could have acquired that while working during college.

I could be wrong however.

You're right. I'm 22 (shows ID), and got all of my work experience during late high school and college years.

Okay, I think I'm gonna gun for that June retake while riding the wait list as well. Everyones input so far has been very helpful, thank you.

And really if you score high enough there's a good chance you get into UT with a good scholarship this year and you don't even have to sit out a cycle.

Good luck man, lots of great resources here. And feel free to PM me if you need help with anything.

[AT9]

Sitting out to re-take may be the best option for you.

If you don't, I think UH is your best bet. You'd be a local Aggie in Houston who wants to work in Texas and who wouldn't have much debt. Not a horrible place to be.

[shifty_eyed]

A couple points higher in June and you'll get off the waitlist at UT. If you score significantly higher (166 +) and can't get a scholarship off the waitlist, you should wait to reapply for fall 2018.

[downinDtown]

Don't see much reason to leave TX if not for a T14, but even then that's not as important since you're not gunning for BigLaw.

A lot of people say they're not gunning for biglaw, but once they admit they're simply looking for a "well paying legal job" you know they're gunning for biglaw. OP might not know it, but he's gunning for biglaw.

(for perspective, Dallas, Houston, and Austin's economies combined are the same size as NYC, which is the biggest legal market in the world)..

But they have about a third of the firm jobs, and an even smaller proportion if you take out small firms.

True on both accounts. BigLaw is the Siren's call. But it's easier to say no to those $$$/hours if you have No/Low debt.

I understand that NYC has a lot more legal jobs comparatively. But I'd be interested to say the number of applicants per legal job in TX versus those in NYC.

A ton of people from across the country target NYC (half the threads on this board say to target NYC as your OCI backup). Plus, just in the Tri-state area (NY, CT, NJ) there are 21 law schools, and if you throw in the other NE schools that target NYC heavily (Penn, Harvard, BU, BC, etc.) you have 3 times the amount of schools targeting those same jobs. NYC (bright lights, big city, big $$$) is more of a draw than TX (hot summers, muggy weather, loud personalities, but "how 'bout that COL, y'all?") People that target TX generally have a reason to be there (home, family, targeting energy, etc.). Plus, energy activity is drawing some of the coastal firms in to TX (Latham, Skadden, STB, etc.) and there are several others that are either entering or expanding their presence in TX.

So part of OP's calculation may include what he wants to do, if he has any idea (fat chance for a 0L, but some do). Finance/capital markets, NYC is better. Energy, TX has it in spades. All of this changes if, in fact, OP wants BigLaw. T14/UT gives you a much better shot in TX and elsewhere.

[SECAggies14]

Does anyone have anything good (or bad) to say about ASU?

[bound]

Does anyone have anything good (or bad) to say about ASU?

Might as well be a community college.




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