Temple Law ($$$) vs. Boston College Forum

[deadpanic]

ah, gotcha.

i still don't see how my confidence about the LSAT has anything to with my confidence about doing well in law school. two totally different things altogether.

No offense, but how do you know as a 0L? You're getting advice from law students/lawyers who have been through both. Law exams are way more difficult and unpredictable.

Also as others have pointed out, to repay the debt you will incur at BC, you will need to be top 20-25% of the class.

[Nomo]

BC with $25,000 is not a good deal. Tuition is still too high, and its going to keep going up. Re-take the LSAT and try again. If you can't get a better LSAT score find another career path.

[Nucky]

BC for 25k off is not a bad deal. If you're set on going to law school take it and run. There's a lot if elitism on TLS and those who go t14 seem to have a tough time understanding any other path. Someone above mentioned 155k of debt. In my (perhaps elitist) opinion, 155k is nothing, especially when spread over what should be a long and successful career in the law. So if you decide on BC, good luck. You'll likely be fine if you work hard enough.

That being said, look at your prospects with a 153 LSAT. I'm sure you could do much better with the right prep, and if you broke the 160s you would likely break into the t14. If it isn't worth it to you, so be it. BC is a good option. But you could have GREAT life altering options if you bit the bullet. Lots of people(including me) would kill to be in your shoes. Give it some thought. BC is great, but it's no Columbia.

[BankruptMe]

Before you even posted the thread, you should have known that the answer was retake. lol

Just decide what you want to do. Is the cost of one more year of studying worth it? Everyone has different utility measures, so determine what yours is.

[Nucky]

The answer is retake until you're at HYS with a full scholly or are out of attempts.

EDIT: I thought about it and even if you're in at HYS with full scholly you should still retake for bragging rights.

[RLowry23]

BC for 25k off is not a bad deal. If you're set on going to law school take it and run. There's a lot if elitism on TLS and those who go t14 seem to have a tough time understanding any other path. Someone above mentioned 155k of debt. In my (perhaps elitist) opinion, 155k is nothing, especially when spread over what should be a long and successful career in the law. So if you decide on BC, good luck. You'll likely be fine if you work hard enough.

That being said, look at your prospects with a 153 LSAT. I'm sure you could do much better with the right prep, and if you broke the 160s you would likely break into the t14. If it isn't worth it to you, so be it. BC is a good option. But you could have GREAT life altering options if you bit the bullet. Lots of people(including me) would kill to be in your shoes. Give it some thought. BC is great, but it's no Columbia.

From someone who is probably going to be going to Temple in the fall, there's a problem with this line of thinking. You say "what should be a successful career". That's exactly why people on here caution about taking 155k out, because of the very scary and very real possibility that you don't have a successful career in law.

Certainly, there are some who approach it from the elitism perspective - but there are others who just don't want to see someone's life ruined when they could've retaken the test and seen their outcomes improved dramatically.

[Nucky]

BC for 25k off is not a bad deal. If you're set on going to law school take it and run. There's a lot if elitism on TLS and those who go t14 seem to have a tough time understanding any other path. Someone above mentioned 155k of debt. In my (perhaps elitist) opinion, 155k is nothing, especially when spread over what should be a long and successful career in the law. So if you decide on BC, good luck. You'll likely be fine if you work hard enough.

That being said, look at your prospects with a 153 LSAT. I'm sure you could do much better with the right prep, and if you broke the 160s you would likely break into the t14. If it isn't worth it to you, so be it. BC is a good option. But you could have GREAT life altering options if you bit the bullet. Lots of people(including me) would kill to be in your shoes. Give it some thought. BC is great, but it's no Columbia.

From someone who is probably going to be going to Temple in the fall, there's a problem with this line of thinking. You say "what should be a successful career". That's exactly why people on here caution about taking 155k out, because of the very scary and very real possibility that you don't have a successful career in law.

Certainly, there are some who approach it from the elitism perspective - but there are others who just don't want to see someone's life ruined when they could've retaken the test and seen their outcomes improved dramatically.

If you go to Tenple, yes, there is a very real possibility that you don't have a successful career in the law. But Temple =\= BC. I encourage him to retake, and did, but BC for $25k off is hardly a sucker's bet.

Also, I'm sorry, but $155k isn't that much money in adult-world. If I didn't know any better I'd think you all lived in a big shoe. It's BC. Unless OP is a huge moron he'll be fine. That being said, before I disturb anymore hypersensitive TLSers, retake is TCR. OP, you could go T-14 with marginal improvement. Why not at least try?

[jk148706]

Also, I'm sorry, but $155k isn't that much money in adult-world. If I didn't know any better I'd think you all lived in a big shoe. It's BC. Unless OP is a huge moron he'll be fine.

Um, wut?

[jk148706]

In my (perhaps elitist) opinion, 155k is nothing, especially when spread over what should be a long and successful career in the law. So if you decide on BC, good luck. You'll likely be fine if you work hard enough.

Omg what is this

[Winston1984]

In my (perhaps elitist) opinion, 155k is nothing, especially when spread over what should be a long and successful career in the law. So if you decide on BC, good luck. You'll likely be fine if you work hard enough.

Omg what is this

Don't you know bro? 155k isn't shit when you'll be pulling in the big 40k-50k a year salary.

[jk148706]

In my (perhaps elitist) opinion, 155k is nothing, especially when spread over what should be a long and successful career in the law. So if you decide on BC, good luck. You'll likely be fine if you work hard enough.

Omg what is this

Don't you know bro? 155k isn't shit when you'll be pulling in the big 40k-50k a year salary.

I just..can't... I don't even...

[BigZuck]

BC for 25k off is not a bad deal. If you're set on going to law school take it and run. There's a lot if elitism on TLS and those who go t14 seem to have a tough time understanding any other path. Someone above mentioned 155k of debt. In my (perhaps elitist) opinion, 155k is nothing, especially when spread over what should be a long and successful career in the law. So if you decide on BC, good luck. You'll likely be fine if you work hard enough.

That being said, look at your prospects with a 153 LSAT. I'm sure you could do much better with the right prep, and if you broke the 160s you would likely break into the t14. If it isn't worth it to you, so be it. BC is a good option. But you could have GREAT life altering options if you bit the bullet. Lots of people(including me) would kill to be in your shoes. Give it some thought. BC is great, but it's no Columbia.

25K at BC is a bad deal. That school isn't worth 150k, not even close. And it shouldn't be treated as if its a big law feeder. It's not. It's a good school but you shouldn't attend unless its cheap and you're ok with non-big law jobs and the very real possibility of striking out altogether.

I'm not going to trace the law schools of everyone ITT but neither Sublime nor I attend a T14 and we both say retake, it's not worth it.

Look nucks, people's lives are at stake here. I would appreciate it if you took this seriously. Stop ad homing and stop saying stuff like "150K means little in adult world." It means a whole hell of a lot when you're working a stressful 50K a year job that has no guarantee of ever making you 6 figures in the future.

[Nucky]

If you pull 40-50k from BC you're either a moron or have a heart of gold.

I agree that he should absolutely retake. Nothing to lose and possibly much to gain. But you guys are far too alarmist. There are plumbers in large cities who manage to service 300k debt on their homes. "His life is at stake!" "You're committing suicide!" Really? Have any of you stepped into the real world for even a moment? I know 150k buys a lot of ramen noodles, but it's hardly a crippling situation at a T25 law school(employment-wise). Get over yourselves.

Will OP look back and regret being lazy and not retaking for more money and/or T14? Of course, and frankly I'm astonished at the reluctance(or stupidity) to retake when he could completely change the course of his life with relatively minimal effort. But it isn't as if the guy is looking to pay sticker at Cooley. Give him(and me) a break.

[worldtraveler]

If you pull 40-50k from BC you're either a moron or have a heart of gold.

I agree that he should absolutely retake. Nothing to lose and possibly much to gain. But you guys are far too alarmist. There are plumbers in large cities who manage to service 300k debt on their homes. "His life is at stake!" "You're committing suicide!" Really? Have any of you stepped into the real world for even a moment? I know 150k buys a lot of ramen noodles, but it's hardly a crippling situation at a T25 law school(employment-wise). Get over yourselves.

Will OP look back and regret being lazy and not retaking for more money and/or T14? Of course, and frankly I'm astonished at the reluctance(or stupidity) to retake when he could completely change the course of his life with relatively minimal effort. But it isn't as if the guy is looking to pay sticker at Cooley. Give him(and me) a break.

What exactly qualifies you to give advice?

[deadpanic]

The answer is retake until you're at HYS with a full scholly or are out of attempts.

EDIT: I thought about it and even if you're in at HYS with full scholly you should still retake for bragging rights.

OP, do not take any advice from this 0L.

Dude has absolutely no grasp of what debt means or the nature of the current legal market.

[californiauser]

If you pull 40-50k from BC you're either a moron or have a heart of gold.

I agree that he should absolutely retake. Nothing to lose and possibly much to gain. But you guys are far too alarmist. There are plumbers in large cities who manage to service 300k debt on their homes. "His life is at stake!" "You're committing suicide!" Really? Have any of you stepped into the real world for even a moment? I know 150k buys a lot of ramen noodles, but it's hardly a crippling situation at a T25 law school(employment-wise). Get over yourselves.

Will OP look back and regret being lazy and not retaking for more money and/or T14? Of course, and frankly I'm astonished at the reluctance(or stupidity) to retake when he could completely change the course of his life with relatively minimal effort. But it isn't as if the guy is looking to pay sticker at Cooley. Give him(and me) a break.

this is stupid. a mortgage is not equatable to being unemployed with a run of the mill JD degree

I don't think YOU understand how bad the legal market is

[jk148706]

If you pull 40-50k from BC you're either a moron or have a heart of gold.

Wut..just wwuuuuut

But you guys are far too alarmist.

I would argue not alarmist enough

I know 150k buys a lot of ramen noodles, but it's hardly a crippling situation at a T25 law school(employment-wise). Get over yourselves.

There are literally hundreds (thousands?) of t25 law grads who would disagree with you

Give him(and me) a break.

No, I don't think we should. As Big Zuck says, if someone is hellbent on a bad law school decision, then YOLO. But it's not any TLSers job to "give ppl a break"

Nicky, you are a 0L giving what many actual lawyers and 2-3Ls itt have said is objectively terrible advice. I'm also a 0L so I don't have the best answers for OP, but I would NEVER say things like "155k in debt is nothing". Or "unless OP is moron he will be fine at bc".

How in the world do you know? What qualifies you to give that advice? What do you know about managing $155,000 in student loan debt after graduating law school? What expertise can you bring to the discussion regarding legal employment?

[Nucky]

If you pull 40-50k from BC you're either a moron or have a heart of gold.

I agree that he should absolutely retake. Nothing to lose and possibly much to gain. But you guys are far too alarmist. There are plumbers in large cities who manage to service 300k debt on their homes. "His life is at stake!" "You're committing suicide!" Really? Have any of you stepped into the real world for even a moment? I know 150k buys a lot of ramen noodles, but it's hardly a crippling situation at a T25 law school(employment-wise). Get over yourselves.

Will OP look back and regret being lazy and not retaking for more money and/or T14? Of course, and frankly I'm astonished at the reluctance(or stupidity) to retake when he could completely change the course of his life with relatively minimal effort. But it isn't as if the guy is looking to pay sticker at Cooley. Give him(and me) a break.

What exactly qualifies you to give advice?

A degree, and years in big business and investment. Has nothing to do with law school, granted. But I like to think I know a good bet when I see one. But hey, you guys know it all. I may just be a self-made moron speaking out of my ass.

I'll say this, I visited a T25 recently and I wouldn't have hired over half the class to sweep the floors so you all may be on to something. But I think if OP is socially competent, well spoken and can interview well he'll be fine.

I'll leave this alone and let you guys continue to ream him. Though you're all ignoring it, I have advised and continue to suggest a retake. Not looking for a fight here. I just think you guys are being unnecessarily harsh.

[unodostres]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Do not listen to him. You must retake. And if you think you cannot handle the lsat, law school exams will turn you inside out.

Retake, seriously. You took it once. ONCE. You base your conclusions off a sample that's unlikely to be representative and indicative of your ability to score higher.

Law school is going no where. 155k is crippling debt. Do you never want to own a home?

And lol at a 0L talking about hiring. Insane.

[jk148706]

But I think if OP is socially competent, well spoken and can interview well he'll be fine.

I usually don't care about threads like these, but I can't get over this.

Why would u give this advice? How do you know, a 0L with no legal experience? Do you think the 25%of BCs class underemployed is socially incompetent?

I'll leave this alone and let you guys continue to ream him.

I don't think ppl itt are reaming OP...

[northwood]

The legal market is not good. look at the vale of tears thread. This is the norm, not the exception. Unlike a mortgage or other debt, student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. to get a student loan discharged, you need to meet a very high threshold, which often means that you must become so disabled that you cannot work in any capacity, or you are dead.
There are a lot of attorneys who cannot get a full time JD required job. Even after being admitted to the bar.


If you want to go, do everything in your power to minimize your debt. The easiest way to do this is to study for the LSAT for at least 6 months ( if not working). If you are working full time, extend that timeframe. Or, if you must go, go with the mentality that if you do not perform well enough after fall semester to be in the top 25%, you cut your losses and leave.

[jk148706]

Is Nucky a john1990 alt??

[cotiger]

Is Nucky a john1990 alt??

[Nomo]

If you pull 40-50k from BC you're either a moron or have a heart of gold.

I agree that he should absolutely retake. Nothing to lose and possibly much to gain. But you guys are far too alarmist. There are plumbers in large cities who manage to service 300k debt on their homes. "His life is at stake!" "You're committing suicide!" Really? Have any of you stepped into the real world for even a moment? I know 150k buys a lot of ramen noodles, but it's hardly a crippling situation at a T25 law school(employment-wise). Get over yourselves.

Will OP look back and regret being lazy and not retaking for more money and/or T14? Of course, and frankly I'm astonished at the reluctance(or stupidity) to retake when he could completely change the course of his life with relatively minimal effort. But it isn't as if the guy is looking to pay sticker at Cooley. Give him(and me) a break.

35% of BC's class of 2012 did not have full time legal employment 9 months after graduation. Only 26.7% had biglaw or federal clerkships. Considering the bimodal distribution of salaries its a very safe assumption that most of the remaining students (41%) made between 40 and 60k.

[deadpanic]

If you pull 40-50k from BC you're either a moron or have a heart of gold.

I agree that he should absolutely retake. Nothing to lose and possibly much to gain. But you guys are far too alarmist. There are plumbers in large cities who manage to service 300k debt on their homes. "His life is at stake!" "You're committing suicide!" Really? Have any of you stepped into the real world for even a moment? I know 150k buys a lot of ramen noodles, but it's hardly a crippling situation at a T25 law school(employment-wise). Get over yourselves.

Will OP look back and regret being lazy and not retaking for more money and/or T14? Of course, and frankly I'm astonished at the reluctance(or stupidity) to retake when he could completely change the course of his life with relatively minimal effort. But it isn't as if the guy is looking to pay sticker at Cooley. Give him(and me) a break.

35% of BC's class of 2012 did not have full time legal employment 9 months after graduation. Only 26.7% had biglaw or federal clerkships. Considering the bimodal distribution of salaries its a very safe assumption that most of the remaining students (41%) made between 40 and 60k.

But dude, just WORK HARD and INTERVIEW WELL. According to Nucky, those 75% of BC grads unemployed/underemployed just didn't work hard enough or were losers. Can't believe those guys didn't think of those things.

Wasn't BC the one who posted a job to their symplicity with a firm hiring for around 20-something thousand a year? I think they did and had actually at least 10ish BC 3Ls apply. It's amazing how clueless some 0Ls really are. It is truly that bad out there.