NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2013 Forum

[04102014]

Quite the drop for Penn.

[Nelson]

Quite the drop for Penn.

Year over year fluctuations in these stats are meaningless.

[d cooper]

Can someone post rankings 21-50 please? Thanks

21-50 rankings here: http://[link redacted]/isP1J6

Sortable Google Doc with comparison for 2012 and 2013 numbers (and % increase).

Thanks. Here's 2009-2011 for anyone curious: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=179039

[BigZuck]

Michigan is a confirmed TTT in decline now, yes?

[d cooper]

I don't have enough posts for permissions to embed images, and I'm sure this is already around somewhere, but here's 2009-2013 on one chart: http://i.imgur.com/EVflawI.jpg

[smokeylarue]

People should keep in mind the actual numbers are probably higher due to the fact that not every firm responds to the NLJ survey, there are plenty of smaller firms not in the top 250 that also pay market or close to, and people will willingly drop Big Law after their 2L Summer in order to do something else, like a clerkship, business, or public interest. I'd add 5-10% to each number in the T14 as to the actual number of people who were able to snag BigLaw in their 2L Summer (note: this is totally based off nothing but anecdotal and what schools have revealed from past OCI data)

[Big Dog]

Year over year fluctuations in these stats are meaningless

Not if you are a '13 grad and are in the % of the 'fluctuation'.

[rad lulz]

People should keep in mind the actual numbers are probably higher due to the fact that not every firm responds to the NLJ survey, there are plenty of smaller firms not in the top 250 that also pay market or close to, and people will willingly drop Big Law after their 2L Summer in order to do something else, like a clerkship, business, or public interest. I'd add 5-10% to each number in the T14 as to the actual number of people who were able to snag BigLaw in their 2L Summer (note: this is totally based off nothing but anecdotal and what schools have revealed from past OCI data)

Just use ABA data and you don't have to worry ab the nlj250s flaws

Nlj250 used to be cool when it was literally the only third party employment source

Now it's not that interesting

[star fox]

So… Columbia at Sticker if the goal is NYC BigLaw not looking like too bad an option? I mean debt still sucks obviously, but damn that number is looking strong. Not asking for myself, didn't apply there.. more just in general.

[eastcoast_iub]

People should keep in mind the actual numbers are probably higher due to the fact that not every firm responds to the NLJ survey, there are plenty of smaller firms not in the top 250 that also pay market or close to)

This is absolutely true, my <100-person firms pays market and 3 people in my summer class were from Duke. Considering their relatively small class size, this is significant. I am at M and know at least one other person in my class in the same position, and I'm sure there are several others like us.

[lhanvt13]

People should keep in mind the actual numbers are probably higher due to the fact that not every firm responds to the NLJ survey, there are plenty of smaller firms not in the top 250 that also pay market or close to)

This is absolutely true, my <100-person firms pays market and 3 people in my summer class were from Duke. Considering their relatively small class size, this is significant. I am at M and know at least one other person in my class in the same position, and I'm sure there are several others like us.

So, things ARE actually looking better??

[iliketurtles123]

People should keep in mind the actual numbers are probably higher due to the fact that not every firm responds to the NLJ survey, there are plenty of smaller firms not in the top 250 that also pay market or close to)

This is absolutely true, my <100-person firms pays market and 3 people in my summer class were from Duke. Considering their relatively small class size, this is significant. I am at M and know at least one other person in my class in the same position, and I'm sure there are several others like us.

So, things ARE actually looking better??

Well the same firms that don't respond each year are going to affect the data each year so the same effect will be seen (or rather, unseen) each year.

[Tiago Splitter]

People should keep in mind the actual numbers are probably higher due to the fact that not every firm responds to the NLJ survey, there are plenty of smaller firms not in the top 250 that also pay market or close to)

This is absolutely true, my <100-person firms pays market and 3 people in my summer class were from Duke. Considering their relatively small class size, this is significant. I am at M and know at least one other person in my class in the same position, and I'm sure there are several others like us.

Given the very small number of people going to these firms each year I'm going to say that the impact of the market-paying sub-100 attorney firm is mitigated by the occasional below-market firm with greater than 100 attorneys. For c/o 2012, Duke placed 5/225 grads into firms of 26-99 while Michigan placed 10/388.

[twenty]

Also, can we take a second and admire the massive drop UCI took? Their biglaw numbers weren't great before by any stretch (though most of the UCI folks argued that was because of dat clerkship number), but a drop to 17%? Better have, like, 30% of the class in A3.

[toothbrush]

I don't have enough posts for permissions to embed images, and I'm sure this is already around somewhere, but here's 2009-2013 on one chart: http://i.imgur.com/EVflawI.jpg

thanks. i was too lazy to do this myself

[rad lulz]

People should keep in mind the actual numbers are probably higher due to the fact that not every firm responds to the NLJ survey, there are plenty of smaller firms not in the top 250 that also pay market or close to)

This is absolutely true, my <100-person firms pays market and 3 people in my summer class were from Duke. Considering their relatively small class size, this is significant. I am at M and know at least one other person in my class in the same position, and I'm sure there are several others like us.

So, things ARE actually looking better??

Class of 2013 was better than 2012. As far as I can surmise classes of 2014 and 2015 OCI were about the same as 2013, give or take. "New normal" gets tossed aroud frequently.

[twenty]

I don't think CO17 can start frolicking around with glee just yet -- there are a lot of graduates without jobs from earlier classes that are going to be gunning for legal spots, and that's going to offset the lower class sizes present ITE.

[wojo98]

Top 50 can be found here

Your spreadsheet game's on point. Appreciate the aggregation.

[PrideandGlory1776]

Thanks this thread is very helpful!

[rad lulz]

,

[toothbrush]

I don't think CO17 can start frolicking around with glee just yet -- there are a lot of graduates without jobs from earlier classes that are going to be gunning for legal spots, and that's going to offset the lower class sizes present ITE.

People say this, but I get the feeling that the degree goes stale rather quickly unless you've been volunteering or whatever (plus big firms really only recruit 2Ls)

That said they should be worried for sure bc the legal mkt still blows

Anonymous big law recruiter today on above the law basically echos what you said about grads probably not able to crack into big firms that easily.
http://abovethelaw.com/2014/03/strategi ... r-letters/

[californiauser]

As far as Michigan, UVA and Berkeley are concered, would I be off base to assume it's probably just as easy to land NYC big law out of these as it is at Northwestern and Cornell? Would anyone disagree that at UMich, Berk, and UVA that a large minority are PI/Big Gov or bust?--whereas at Cornell almost everyone is gunning for a large firm

[Tiago Splitter]

As far as Michigan, UVA and Berkeley are concered, would I be off base to assume it's probably just as easy to land NYC big law out of these as it is at Northwestern and Cornell? Would anyone disagree that at UMich, Berk, and UVA that a large minority are PI/Big Gov or bust?--whereas at Cornell almost everyone is gunning for a large firm

I think just looking at the percentages tells you that. No need to read more deeply into it when the numbers are that close. And Cornell actually put a pretty high percentage into Gov/PI each of the last two years.

[dempsey6]

Why does some of the ABA info differ from NLJ? Simple stuff like number of students.

2012 Northwestern on ABA had 255 while on NLJ top250 it says 280. Or michigan it says 338 and then 388.

http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/bl ... tatistics/

and

http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org/

[Princetonlaw68]

Why does some of the ABA info differ from NLJ? Simple stuff like number of students.

2012 Northwestern on ABA had 255 while on NLJ top250 it says 280. Or michigan it says 338 and then 388.

http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/bl ... tatistics/

and

http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org/

Could it be that one is leaving out transfers or part-time students??