Top Law Schools

I see a lot of talk on this site about choosing the best law schools over ones that are not so hot, for obvious reasons. Job prospects are poor, high debt, etc. I understand this site is called 'Top Law Schools' but am wondering how pointless (as I've read) a degree from a law school that isn't on the top really is.

My GPA is 3.3-3.4. LSAT will probably be high 150s, perhaps low 160s. Taking in October, hoping for best, but high 150s will hopefully be my lowest.

With that said, I am obviously not getting into a top school. It's clear and is pretty much cemented in (unless I score insanely high on LSAT). Parents are loaning me the $ for school, and I will pay them back when I have the means to do so.

With that said, would it really be a nail in the coffin for me to attend Hawaii or Colorado (or similar schools)? I will attend law school and won't give up my dream just because I can't be in a top school. My boss at the old firm I worked at went to a Tier 3 or 4 and he owns his own firm and is doing quite well.

Just throwing that out there. Keep in mind I'd be stoked to go to NYU, Berkeley, UCLA etc., but it just isn't possible given my stats. Jacked around too much in my first 3 years of college lol

Thanks in advance for any thoughts/advice.

surf wrote:I see a lot of talk on this site about choosing the best law schools over ones that are not so hot, for obvious reasons. Job prospects are poor, high debt, etc. I understand this site is called 'Top Law Schools' but am wondering how pointless (as I've read) a degree from a law school that isn't on the top really is.

My GPA is 3.3-3.4. LSAT will probably be high 150s, perhaps low 160s. Taking in October, hoping for best, but high 150s will hopefully be my lowest.

With that said, I am obviously not getting into a top school. It's clear and is pretty much cemented in (unless I score insanely high on LSAT). Parents are loaning me the $ for school, and I will pay them back when I have the means to do so.

With that said, would it really be a nail in the coffin for me to attend Hawaii or Colorado (or similar schools)? I will attend law school and won't give up my dream just because I can't be in a top school. My boss at the old firm I worked at went to a Tier 3 or 4 and he owns his own firm and is doing quite well.

Just throwing that out there. Keep in mind I'd be stoked to go to NYU, Berkeley, UCLA etc., but it just isn't possible given my stats. Jacked around too much in my first 3 years of college lol

Thanks in advance for any thoughts/advice.

Wait, why do you think a score in the low-160s be the absolute best possible outcome? Have you been practicing a long time?

And, well, some regional schools are worth attending, y'know, at the right price.

Still, I'd like to know why you don't think you can hit 165+.

So just to be clear, you concede you are too dumb to do well on the lsat? Why give up. What would I do if I wanted to be a lawyer? I wouldn't give up on myself and I'd retake for 170+, and still go to a top school.

surf wrote: I will attend law school and won't give up my dream just because I can't be in a top school.

What exactly is your dream? To wear a suit to work everyday?

There's a very high likelyhood that you'll be doing divorce law, personal injury/ambulance chasing, or class action work if you can find a job at all out of either of these options. The best case scenarios for the majority of grads out of these schools are hardly anything anyone would dream about doing.

Don't sell yourself so short on the LSAT. Study hard and make a 170 or so your goal. That may sound high, but the LSAT is an incredibly learnable test, and getting a good score on it is a whole lot easier than doing well enough at a TTT or TTT to get a job. You said that you won't give up your dream to become a lawyer. Prove your dedication to that dream through your studying for the LSAT.

This website provides a lot of great resources for helping you to study. Definitely check them out. Your GPA isn't stellar, but it won't bar you from the T14 with a good enough score. Best of luck!

The LSAT is learnable. People go to top schools with low GPAs (when they do really well on the LSAT). The real problem is going to a shit law school at Full price. It can also be a problem to go to a good law school at full price.

Firstly, you have to ace the LSAT. Get yourself the Powerscore Logic Games Bible and study that till Spring. Then consult all the LSAT advice on these forums. It's a long road, and your GPA will not bar you from a positive outcome.

Cool. October (or late September this year supposedly), is really the longest I'd like to wait. I'm halfway through the trainer. My first couple practice tests were low-mid 140s (F***). <<That's why I am pessimistic about 165+...a big leap, but possible I suppose.. if anyone thinks that that's possible from now until September.

I'm in my last semester with 9 units/no job. No excuses not to study. I'm putting in around 3-4 hours a day doing 1 (sometimes 2) lessons in the Trainer, and then just going over problems I've done, taking breaks in between, re-reading notes. I'm definitely seeing that it's learnable, just need to nail the concepts down. Hopefully 6 months will be enough time.

I jumped from a 150 diagnostic, to an official 164, took time off and retook for a 175+, and took a worse gpa than yours to a T7. Don't give up so easy.

Clearly wrote:I jumped from a 150 diagnostic, to an official 164, took time off and retook for a 175+, and took a worse gpa than yours to a T7. Don't give up so easy.

Pretty impressive I'll say! I've got hope. Haha thanks

surf wrote:

Clearly wrote:I jumped from a 150 diagnostic, to an official 164, took time off and retook for a 175+, and took a worse gpa than yours to a T7. Don't give up so easy.

Pretty impressive I'll say! I've got hope. Haha thanks

Seriously though, there is nothing precluding you from doing well except confidence and dedication.

3.3 is plenty decent enough to get into a top school with a good LSAT score

6 months is enough time. I jumped 22 points in 6 months. Keep in mind your first few tests aren't reflective of your potential

I second the advice about keeping up with the studying. Once you get over the notion that you're "just not a good standardized test taker" which is usually said by people who refuse to do serious studying, you will understand how learnable it really is. The LSAT is not an IQ test.

More to the point, what exactly is your dream? To get into law school? That's a shitty dream to have- there are 200 law schools clamoring to take your parents money, and it is no great feat to find one of them to take you. Or do you actually want to be a lawyer, and if so, what do you think that means?

Study hard, break 170.

I have a sub-3.0 and (granted I didn't break 170, I'd retake if I didn't have a good cycle already) pulled Texas and WUSTL so far. LSAT can make up for a poor GPA at many schools, and your's isn't even that bad. It may be below HYS floors, but with a 175+ could prob pull CCN.

Don't convince yourself that you MUST go to law school immediately following undergrad. Take a year or two off and work if you can.

TheSpanishMain wrote:Don't convince yourself that you MUST go to law school immediately following undergrad. Take a year or two off and work if you can.

This.

I almost made the decision to go to law schools right after undergrad. Best decision I ever made was taking a few years off to work. Learn a little more about who you are, your goals. Take that shit job that doesn't pay well and learn what it's like to live paycheck to paycheck. That way, you'll know why you want it, and what the alternative is.

John Everyman wrote:

TheSpanishMain wrote:Don't convince yourself that you MUST go to law school immediately following undergrad. Take a year or two off and work if you can.

This.

I almost made the decision to go to law schools right after undergrad. Best decision I ever made was taking a few years off to work. Learn a little more about who you are, your goals. Take that shit job that doesn't pay well and learn what it's like to live paycheck to paycheck. That way, you'll know why you want it, and what the alternative is.

Makes sense. I will be taking one full year off. But I'll be applying this fall, so I can start fall of 15. I plan to get a job upon returning home in may.

timbs4339 wrote:I second the advice about keeping up with the studying. Once you get over the notion that you're "just not a good standardized test taker" which is usually said by people who refuse to do serious studying, you will understand how learnable it really is. The LSAT is not an IQ test.

More to the point, what exactly is your dream? To get into law school? That's a shitty dream to have- there are 200 law schools clamoring to take your parents money, and it is no great feat to find one of them to take you. Or do you actually want to be a lawyer, and if so, what do you think that means?

Obviously being the lawyer is what I want, law school being a stepping stone to my ultimate goal. I'd rather not be doing shitlaw, am interested in business and real estate. Need to explore more options though. I'd really like to be in a position where I can feel good about what I do, and help people out who truly need help. Is that reality? Who knows.

As for the studying, I need to get out of the mindset that 165 isn't achievable.

surf wrote:

timbs4339 wrote:I second the advice about keeping up with the studying. Once you get over the notion that you're "just not a good standardized test taker" which is usually said by people who refuse to do serious studying, you will understand how learnable it really is. The LSAT is not an IQ test.

More to the point, what exactly is your dream? To get into law school? That's a shitty dream to have- there are 200 law schools clamoring to take your parents money, and it is no great feat to find one of them to take you. Or do you actually want to be a lawyer, and if so, what do you think that means?

Obviously being the lawyer is what I want, law school being a stepping stone to my ultimate goal. I'd rather not be doing shitlaw, am interested in business and real estate. Need to explore more options though. I'd really like to be in a position where I can feel good about what I do, and help people out who truly need help. Is that reality? Who knows.

As for the studying, I need to get out of the mindset that 165 isn't achievable.

You can do "shitlaw" and still be doing business and real estate. Shitlaw/smallaw is just law for individuals, done by small firms or solos, starting at around 40-60K per year. You're drawing up articles of incorporation for small businesses, representing people in Housing Court, trying to get someone's insurance company to pay for the fire damage to their business, or doing home closings. In fact, if you want to help people, outside of direct non-profit legal services organizations "shitlaw" is the place to be.

timbs4339 wrote:
You can do "shitlaw" and still be doing business and real estate. Shitlaw/smallaw is just law for individuals, done by small firms or solos, starting at around 40-60K per year. You're drawing up articles of incorporation for small businesses, representing people in Housing Court, trying to get someone's insurance company to pay for the fire damage to their business, or doing home closings. In fact, if you want to help people, outside of direct public legal services organizations "shitlaw" is the place to be.

Right on. PM sent.