Columbia vs NYU Forum

[jayjo0909]

Hi guys, first time poster. Wondering which one would be better. I will apply this coming October. I have 3.83/171, average soft (WE 2yrs when I go to law school). The reason I want to go to either is my fiancee is staying in NYC for at least the next 4-6yrs. I really don't even want to imagine living far from her for three years. Even if I get HYS, I would pick Columbia(CLS)/NYU for that reason. It may sound ridiculous but my next choice (If I don't get both CLS/NYU) is Fordham due to location.

That being said, I'm planning to ED either CLS/NYU to increase my chance of admission. Money is not an issue, I have enough money to pay sticker.

Career goal: NYC big law for about 3 years (hopefully V20. If not, NLJ 250), and then in-house, unless I find litigation very appealing during law school.


From what I've googled, I got few differences down:

1. Culture : NYU>CLS
CLS is more cutthroat compare to NYU being slightly more relaxed (NYU sharing notes or being friendly)

2. Campus : CLS>NYU
CLS has actual "campus" as opposed to NYU is just bunch of buildings on a street.

3. Number of students : CLS>=NYU
CLS around 380 vs NYU around 450, which I think is marginal difference

4. Location : NYU>=CLS
CLS is more of secluded, less fun area versus NYU being in Greenwich village hell lot more things to do. It's not determining factor for me because more than likely I will stay at my place anyway. I

5. Employment aspects : CLS=NYU
I heard NYU is better for PI and CLS for corporate work. However, majority students of both schools go to law firms (my plan) anyway, which I think it's marginal difference for me.

6. Prestige : CLS>=NYU
CLS is a better institution overall, being Ivy League, but for law school only, there is marginal difference.


From the research I did so far, I really don't see huge difference between the two. My uncle told me (lawyer for 20+yrs) that they are pretty much identical, I have to decide. I've been to both places and still don't feel much difference. I would love either.

I would like TLS's opinion on these two, wondering if I'm missing something. I would appreciate an opinion, especially from one of the students at either CLS/NYU. Thank you.

[TigerDude]

don't ED. you'll be in at both, probably with $$. Give your money to a poor person instead of throwing it away to a law school.

[timbs4339]

They are essentially identical schools. It may be easier to get a job at CLS if the student body has really shrunk that much (a 15% difference is not "marginal." It really just depends on whether you want to live in Morningside Heights or the Village or whatever schools gives you more money (how are you willing to shell out 300K on either of these schools).

Did you try walking around the neighborhoods? What does your fiance think?

[Tiago Splitter]

1. Culture : NYU>CLS
CLS is more cutthroat compare to NYU being slightly more relaxed (NYU sharing notes or being friendly)

This is crap. Students at both schools are similar and CLS is as relaxed as you want it to be.

4. Location : NYU>=CLS
CLS is more of secluded, less fun area versus NYU being in Greenwich village hell lot more things to do. It's not determining factor for me because more than likely I will stay at my place anyway.

This could matter depending on where your place is. Columbia is harder to get to from a lot of places.

5. Employment aspects : CLS=NYU
I heard NYU is better for PI and CLS for corporate work. However, majority students of both schools go to law firms (my plan) anyway, which I think it's marginal difference for me.

Yes for big firm employment they are pretty much equal.

I agree that you should not ED to either. Even if your family is plenty rich you should just go to whichever one gives you more money.

[jayjo0909]

Thanks for the replies. My fiance and I both work in midtown now. She is willing to move to somewhere halfway distance so that I'm not travelling near an hour everyday, at least for my 1L year.

My parents will pay for my tuition, and they are rich enough to throw $250K at me (they already threw over $1M for my brother's and my high school+college). I understand why you guys say apply RD and wait, and I would like to save their money as well. But I really need to increase my admission chance and I think ED is the way. Like, I cannot take chance leaving NYC.

It sounds like it really comes down to personal preference over which one to go.

[Ramius]

The chances of you not getting either of NYU or CLS next cycle with those numbers is essentially nil. Just get your app fully polished and blemish free, submit early and leave it at that. If you don't get NYU or CLS for some weird reason, just wait and reapply. Your fiancee is gonna be in NYC for the next 4-6 years anyway, so you have time. I can't imagine you being shut out and it would be foolish to give up the scholly money, even if your parents are rich enough to foot the bill. ED won't provide much boost in this scenario anyway.

Have you checked mylsn on this? It looks pretty good for you.

[Tiago Splitter]

I'd probably just figure out where you want to live and ED the one that makes your life easier. I'm biased toward CLS and it might be very slightly better for firm work but NYU is a fine choice.

[lawschool22]

Don't ED dude/dudette. Based on myLSN, the probability of you not getting at least one of the two is approximately 0.4%. By not EDing, you will:

(a) Give yourself a chance at negotiating scholarships (I know you don't care about this, but perhaps you can negotiate some deal whereby if you get a scholly your parents will give you that same amount of money for a condo or something, idk).

(b) Have the opportunity (likely) to attend both of the schools' admitted students events, thus allowing you to get a better feel for which would be the best fit.

(c) You have a shot at Harvard, which you could use to leverage even more money from these schools.

As long as you are a "standard" applicant, meaning you don't have any major negatives on your application, you will get into both schools.

[jayjo0909]

oh shoot, typo guys... My LSAT is 171, not 173. Edited the original.

I'd probably just figure out where you want to live and ED the one that makes your life easier. I'm biased toward CLS and it might be very slightly better for firm work but NYU is a fine choice.

Yeah, I think I'll take your advice. I'll visit the campus again and figure out.

[oxie]

I'd agree that applying RD to both (early in the cycle with a polished app) is your best bet. Neither school seems to give a statistically significant boost for ED applications: http://admissionsbythenumbers.blogspot. ... op-14.html

[lawschool22]

oh shoot, typo guys... My LSAT is 171, not 173. Edited the original.

I'd probably just figure out where you want to live and ED the one that makes your life easier. I'm biased toward CLS and it might be very slightly better for firm work but NYU is a fine choice.

Yeah, I think I'll take your advice. I'll visit the campus again and figure out.

You're still highly likely to get into both schools.

[Ramius]

Let's say, based on your numbers, there is about a 95% chance you get one or both of them, and likely with some scholly. Do you really think it's worth the thousands lost in schollies at the likely ~3% increase in your chances?

YMMV, but I can't imagine how you'd get that in any cost-benefit analysis.

[lawschool22]

Let's say, based on your numbers, there is about a 95% chance you get one or both of them, and likely with some scholly. Do you really think it's worth the thousands lost in schollies at the likely ~3% increase in your chances?

YMMV, but I can't imagine how you'd get that in any cost-benefit analysis.

I completely agree with you, but let's remember OP's parents dropped $1,000,000 on his sibling's education. This may be one of those situations where money truly is no object and that 3% is worth it in a relative sense.

Although I don't know how become or stay that rich making poor cost/benefit decisions.

[Ramius]

Let's say, based on your numbers, there is about a 95% chance you get one or both of them, and likely with some scholly. Do you really think it's worth the thousands lost in schollies at the likely ~3% increase in your chances?

YMMV, but I can't imagine how you'd get that in any cost-benefit analysis.

I completely agree with you, but let's remember OP's parents dropped $1,000,000 on his sibling's education. This may be one of those situations where money truly is no object and that 3% is worth it in a relative sense.

Although I don't know how become or stay that rich making poor cost/benefit decisions.

I'm all for "F U" levels of money, but my thinking is that if you gave those odds to the parents, wouldn't they likely say, "that's just not worth it?"

Like I said, they can feel free to buy that 3% with the ED, but they just need to know it makes little financial sense.

[lawschool22]

Let's say, based on your numbers, there is about a 95% chance you get one or both of them, and likely with some scholly. Do you really think it's worth the thousands lost in schollies at the likely ~3% increase in your chances?

YMMV, but I can't imagine how you'd get that in any cost-benefit analysis.

I completely agree with you, but let's remember OP's parents dropped $1,000,000 on his sibling's education. This may be one of those situations where money truly is no object and that 3% is worth it in a relative sense.

Although I don't know how become or stay that rich making poor cost/benefit decisions.

I'm all for "F U" levels of money, but my thinking is that if you gave those odds to the parents, wouldn't they likely say, "that's just not worth it?"

Like I said, they can feel free to buy that 3% with the ED, but they just need to know it makes little financial sense.

+1

[jayjo0909]

Ok guys, maybe I lack confidence. I have a friend who got rejected by both CLS/NYU with 3.7/173 and I have 3.83/171 (same undergrad-major), that's why I am not confident with my numbers. Unless he made a huge error in the application, I saw myself having a slim chance due to his case which was why I tried to increase my chance by ED. I took LSAT twice, studied almost a year, which I don't see huge increase anyways.

Since you guys keep talking about money, I re-assure you it's not an issue. My parents' asset is over $20M worth, generating more than $2M cash a year. $250K is not that much for them.

[jayjo0909]

I'd agree that applying RD to both (early in the cycle with a polished app) is your best bet. Neither school seems to give a statistically significant boost for ED applications: http://admissionsbythenumbers.blogspot. ... op-14.html

Oh, wow. I didn't know there was no significant difference for both CLS/NYU. UVA is crazy.

[Crowing]

Ok guys, maybe I lack confidence. I have a friend who got rejected by both CLS/NYU with 3.7/173 and I have 3.83/171 (same undergrad-major), that's why I am not confident with my numbers. Unless he made a huge error in the application, I saw myself having a slim chance due to his case which was why I tried to increase my chance by ED. I took LSAT twice, studied almost a year, which I don't see huge increase anyways.

Since you guys keep talking about money, I re-assure you it's not an issue. My parents' asset is over $20M worth, generating more than $2M cash a year. $250K is not that much for them.

If this is really the case then I will echo what has been said and encourage you to visit both schools and decide which one you like better in person. There really aren't tremendous differences between them in quality.

But honestly applying ED is not likely to do a whole lot to improve your chances; ED boosts for both of those schools are small and your chances are already really good even with the 171. A further advantage to not applying ED is that in the (not terribly unlikely) event that you get into both schools, you'll be able to delay your decision between them. You can go to both ASWs and meet your future classmates and get a better sense of the c/o 2018 at both schools.

[tachikara]

Also, it's much easier to get into law school these days compared to 3-4 years ago, since applications have dropped greatly.

Look at the numbers for recent years on http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com

[03152016]

I did this -- had decent odds at both Columbia and NYU; ended up applying ED to NYU.

Seemed to make sense at the time; I was looking to maximize my chances at CLS/NYU and wanted any edge I could get. But a) I didn't know how little/non-existent the advantage was, b) in retrospect I regret not having options, and c) I'm experiencing some sticker shock (which I know isn't a concern for you, but still). Of course, all of this stuff I either knew going in or could have ascertained with a little research, so I can't complain.

Regardless, I'm still very happy with the outcome. The Village has always been my favorite part of the city and I think I'm going to love living there for three years.

[banjo]

CLS makes you take four real classes in your second semester. At NYU you take three.

CLS makes you take constitutional law in your first year (horrible course). At NYU it's an elective. NYU does require you to take legislation.

CLS doesn't require professors to give out B- grades (so it's just A A- B+ B). I think NYU still does. Think about how much it would suck to see a B- on your transcript.

edit: I hope this is all true, but nobody goes to two law schools so...

[djaja]

At NYU you have to take con law before you graduate, not really an elective.

[lawschool2014hopeful]

If you are so worried with your strong numbers why not just pay for a reputable consulting company?

[Ramius]

If you are so worried with your strong numbers why not just pay for a reputable consulting company?

All the consulting they realistically need is TLS. This community can help way more than some $$$ consulting company. You can get great advice from fellow applicants, law students, practicing attorneys, and even former admissions personnel. It's severely unlikely that an admissions consultant would serve any valuable service.

That being said, if OP decides to take this route, please use spivey, it's the best out there.

[phillywc]

God this is an obnoxious topic. I strongly suspect flame.