Top Law Schools

edit, will post when actual offers are up

Why would you ever leave Canada

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Based on your goals, it's probably HYS. Although you have to look at how you'd finance something like that as far as US citizenship is concerned and all that.

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The problem is with private loans you usually cannot use LRAP, leaving you with only big law as your method to pay back the loans. Given your goals it doesn't sound like you want to put in years at a firm. If I were you I would stay in Canada, or get a full or substantial scholarship to an elite US school. You should be able to get some offers with your #s.

NYU for sure. You just can't beat the kinds of opportunities that a HYSNYU degree opens up.

crit_racer wrote:NYU for sure. You just can't beat the kinds of opportunities that a HYSNYU degree opens up.

I thought NYU would be at the bottom of the CCN race.

jimmierock wrote:

crit_racer wrote:NYU for sure. You just can't beat the kinds of opportunities that a HYSNYU degree opens up.

I thought NYU would be at the bottom of the CCN race.

Ignore this. You really should be looking at HYS, followed by the biggest names, such as Columbia, Penn, Duke, Berkeley, etc
While people here often talk about the T14 (with good reason), schools like Michigan and Cirginia carry less weight internationally than UCLA and Notre Dame

guano wrote:

jimmierock wrote:

crit_racer wrote:NYU for sure. You just can't beat the kinds of opportunities that a HYSNYU degree opens up.

I thought NYU would be at the bottom of the CCN race.

Ignore this. You really should be looking at HYS, followed by the biggest names, such as Columbia, Penn, Duke, Berkeley, etc
While people here often talk about the T14 (with good reason), schools like Michigan and Cirginia carry less weight internationally than UCLA and Notre Dame

I don't understand. Are you saying that there are international hiring decisions for lawyers made on the assumption that Notre Dame has a better law school/law students than Virginia or Michigan? Wtf? That seems preposterous. I guess it's possible, but I'm pretty skeptical. Do you have literally any basis at all for saying this? I'm not saying you don't, but I'd be curious to hear it.

OP - WorldTraveler seems to be the most reliable source in this thread ...

cron1834 wrote:

guano wrote:

jimmierock wrote:

crit_racer wrote:NYU for sure. You just can't beat the kinds of opportunities that a HYSNYU degree opens up.

I thought NYU would be at the bottom of the CCN race.

Ignore this. You really should be looking at HYS, followed by the biggest names, such as Columbia, Penn, Duke, Berkeley, etc
While people here often talk about the T14 (with good reason), schools like Michigan and Cirginia carry less weight internationally than UCLA and Notre Dame

I don't understand. Are you saying that there are international hiring decisions for lawyers made on the assumption that Notre Dame has a better law school/law students than Virginia or Michigan? Wtf? That seems preposterous. I guess it's possible, but I'm pretty skeptical. Do you have literally any basis at all for saying this? I'm not saying you don't, but I'd be curious to hear it.

OP - WorldTraveler seems to be the most reliable source in this thread ...

Name recognition matters.
Having grown up in Europe, no one I know had ever heard of, say, UVA, but plenty of oeope had heard of Notre Dame.
Harvard would be the undisputed #1 choice. Yale and Columbia are near the top. Stanford is known, but not quite as prestigious as it is here, and would probably rank behind Berkeley, possibly in par with UCLA.
Think about it the other way around. Which schools in Europe have you heard of? Which ones are more/less prestigious?
(Everyone knows Oxford & Cambridge, but, after that?)

guano wrote:

cron1834 wrote:

guano wrote:

jimmierock wrote:
Ignore this. You really should be looking at HYS, followed by the biggest names, such as Columbia, Penn, Duke, Berkeley, etc
While people here often talk about the T14 (with good reason), schools like Michigan and Cirginia carry less weight internationally than UCLA and Notre Dame

I don't understand. Are you saying that there are international hiring decisions for lawyers made on the assumption that Notre Dame has a better law school/law students than Virginia or Michigan? Wtf? That seems preposterous. I guess it's possible, but I'm pretty skeptical. Do you have literally any basis at all for saying this? I'm not saying you don't, but I'd be curious to hear it.

OP - WorldTraveler seems to be the most reliable source in this thread ...

Name recognition matters.
Having grown up in Europe, no one I know had ever heard of, say, UVA, but plenty of oeope had heard of Notre Dame.
Harvard would be the undisputed #1 choice. Yale and Columbia are near the top. Stanford is known, but not quite as prestigious as it is here, and would probably rank behind Berkeley, possibly in par with UCLA.
Think about it the other way around. Which schools in Europe have you heard of? Which ones are more/less prestigious?
(Everyone knows Oxford & Cambridge, but, after that?)

If I were hiring European lawyers, I'd make it my business to figure it out, though. Likewise, international orgs hiring JDs from America probably know which schools are good. Lay prestige doesn't decide hiring for competitive jobs. For your everyday job in your everyday town? Sure, UCLA and ND are probably fine. But jobs with 100-to-1 application ratios aren't going to prefer Notre Dame to Virginia. Come on, duder. We're talking about prestigious PI groups here.

cron1834 wrote: If I were hiring European lawyers, I'd make it my business to figure it out, though. Likewise, international orgs hiring JDs from America probably know which schools are good. Lay prestige doesn't decide hiring for competitive jobs. For your everyday job in your everyday town? Sure, UCLA and ND are probably fine. But jobs with 100-to-1 application ratios aren't going to prefer Notre Dame to Virginia. Come on, duder. We're talking about prestigious PI groups here.

You'd be surprised. Outside of a handful of organizations, they're not fielding the volume of applications, for the number of jobs, that their number one goal is figuring out how schools compare.

I-Law and Human Rights Law are easy to break into and gain jobs? This plainly contradicts everything I've ever read on the subject on TLS from insiders. I guess you'll have to share your job secrets with me, then.

cron1834 wrote:I-Law and Human Rights Law are easy to break into and gain jobs? This plainly contradicts everything I've ever read on the subject on TLS from insiders. I guess you'll have to share your job secrets with me, then.

Not what I'm saying

Just to clarify, these organizations are not hiring a gazillionaire people, like the top law firms. There are very few jobs, and the competition is global. There won't be a whole department specializing in lawyer recruiting. It'll either be one or two people in charge if legal recruiting, possibly on top of other responsibilities, or otherwise an HR department that covers all staffing needs.

They also have other concerns than just school/grade, such as background & interest (aka holistic approach)

I remain skeptical, based on employment data and what others actually working in these fields have said. I don't want to belabor this, though, so I'll let others jump in. Hopefully some folks actually employed in Int'l PI can help.

(I do acknowledge that work experience is crucial regardless of the school)

Should I be more concerned with a ranking like this

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/03/the-best ... ecruiters/

I do sympathize with Guano, but I dont know how widespread this "ignorance really is". I have been told that even some law firms will use lay prestige when judging foreign applicants.

guano wrote:

cron1834 wrote: If I were hiring European lawyers, I'd make it my business to figure it out, though. Likewise, international orgs hiring JDs from America probably know which schools are good. Lay prestige doesn't decide hiring for competitive jobs. For your everyday job in your everyday town? Sure, UCLA and ND are probably fine. But jobs with 100-to-1 application ratios aren't going to prefer Notre Dame to Virginia. Come on, duder. We're talking about prestigious PI groups here.

You'd be surprised. Outside of a handful of organizations, they're not fielding the volume of applications, for the number of jobs, that their number one goal is figuring out how schools compare.

WTF are you talking about?

Why not call some folks up in Asia and ask them about their hiring practices? Sounds like you spent enough time over there to talk with them like a local (assuming you speak the lingo).

If you want to stay in Canada though, one of those prestigious Canadian schools is probably as good a bet as a prestigious US school. If you want to come to the US, then you should probably come study here as I imagine your Canadian schools prestige is going to wane the further away from Canada you get.

It sounds like you just want as many options as possible upon graduation. If thats the case, you have the numbers for Harvard, and if you go there, you can probably do whatever the hell you want in canada/US/asia. If you want to try and go the prestigious route w/ scholly, Columbia would probably be my first choice, but again, I'd reach out to some folks actually doing the hiring and ask.

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jimmierock wrote:

StillCutty wrote:Why not call some folks up in Asia and ask them about their hiring practices? Sounds like you spent enough time over there to talk with them like a local (assuming you speak the lingo).

If you want to stay in Canada though, one of those prestigious Canadian schools is probably as good a bet as a prestigious US school. If you want to come to the US, then you should probably come study here as I imagine your Canadian schools prestige is going to wane the further away from Canada you get.

It sounds like you just want as many options as possible upon graduation. If thats the case, you have the numbers for Harvard, and if you go there, you can probably do whatever the hell you want in canada/US/asia. If you want to try and go the prestigious route w/ scholly, Columbia would probably be my first choice, but again, I'd reach out to some folks actually doing the hiring and ask.

I dont have any "professional" connections there, and the lay perception is that Harvard would be by far the best choice, so I dont know whether to trust that or not.

What do professional connections have to do with it? Look up some of the law firms doing work over there and send them an email explaining your situation and your questions. You might have to holler at a few for a response, but in my experience reaching out to firms, when you get a response, they cover not only their own tendencies, but also those of comparable firms.

Again though, it doesn't sound like your set on a specific legal career plan. If variety of options is the name of the game, Harvard is 100% going to secure that for you. To clarify, thats not to say its the only school that can, its just the one you can bet is a guarantee without actually talking to anyone about specific hiring practices.

Frankly dude, with your numbers and your background, I wouldn't be sweating a damn thing. Debt is obviously something to consider, but there are plenty of international firms out there who will pay you out the frame to work for them in Asia assuming you speak the appropriate language(s) and will be able to use your experiences there to help them gain in the Asian Market. Depending on the specifics of your experience, its absolutely possible you could go to a less prestigious school but still be a better prospect for hiring based strictly on personal background.

Also, to help you understand my reasoning for all this, I'm in a similar situation, but for the Latin American market.

Unsurprisingly, Guano has no idea what Guano is talking about. No personal offense dude, but you are just speculating wildly here, counter to the insight of everyone on TLS who actually works in this field. Your position doesn't even make sense - in the Google Era it takes about 30 seconds to figure out which law schools are considered the best.

Dude, people's lives are at stake. If you don't know Wtf you are talking about, you're obligated to either provide a disclaimer or not give advice. Again, no personal attack intended, but come on, man.

cron1834 wrote:Unsurprisingly, Guano has no idea what Guano is talking about. No personal offense dude, but you are just speculating wildly here, counter to the insight of everyone on TLS who actually works in this field. Your position doesn't even make sense - in the Google Era it takes about 30 seconds to figure out which law schools are considered the best.

Dude, people's lives are at stake. If you don't know Wtf you are talking about, you're obligated to either provide a disclaimer or not give advice. Again, no personal attack intended, but come on, man.

What would you do then? Just attend the highest ranked school?

jimmierock wrote:

cron1834 wrote:Unsurprisingly, Guano has no idea what Guano is talking about. No personal offense dude, but you are just speculating wildly here, counter to the insight of everyone on TLS who actually works in this field. Your position doesn't even make sense - in the Google Era it takes about 30 seconds to figure out which law schools are considered the best.

Dude, people's lives are at stake. If you don't know Wtf you are talking about, you're obligated to either provide a disclaimer or not give advice. Again, no personal attack intended, but come on, man.

What would you do then? Just attend the highest ranked school?

No, not automatically! Cost, connections, location, etc all matter. But the difference between a T14 and a non-T14 is pretty massive in terms of hiring outcomes ...

Rank is NOT the end all be all! It's just one factor in the bigger picture. When you choose a school you're choosing the most likely place you'll end up after school as well. You'll be choosing your networking web and you'll be altering the course of your education.

Awesome article here that breaks it down a bit more: http://lawschooladvice.com/advice/getti ... aw-school/