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Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:36 pm
by SnazzleFrazzle89
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Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:41 pm
by Nova
SnazzleFrazzle89 wrote:Ah, but TLS wisdom will say, "AVOID! AVOID! YOU WON'T GET A JOB!"
Naaa
GSU wrote:•65.8% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs.
•86.9% graduates were employed in long-term jobs.
•81.4% graduates were employed in full-time jobs.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=gsu
Those are respectable numbers for a regional school. But their biglaw placement is only ~9% so if you want a biglaw job its a really bad bet.
Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:53 pm
by nebula666
Still shouldn't go at sticker but nobody on this forum will tell you that GSU is a bad option if
1) You are a GA resident and want to work in GA; and
2) You don't want biglaw.
Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:03 am
by SnazzleFrazzle89
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Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:09 am
by SnazzleFrazzle89
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Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:19 am
by Ti Malice
No, having been a paralegal at a firm won't give you any special advantage there.
And why are you assuming that you'll be top 15% at GSU?
Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:46 am
by BigZuck
SnazzleFrazzle89 wrote:Nova wrote:SnazzleFrazzle89 wrote:Ah, but TLS wisdom will say, "AVOID! AVOID! YOU WON'T GET A JOB!"
Naaa
GSU wrote:•65.8% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs.
•86.9% graduates were employed in long-term jobs.
•81.4% graduates were employed in full-time jobs.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=gsu
Those are respectable numbers for a regional school. But their biglaw placement is only ~9% so if you want a biglaw job its a really bad bet.
And that goes back to my hypothetical: If I already have an in with one of the large firms, thanks to prior work experience there, is it not worth going to Georgia State?
I look at it like this...
>I'll be an older student with WE from both the legal and non-legal sector. The older I get, the less inclined I am to put down the $$$ many law schools want. Therefore, my feeling is that I'd be making the practical and rational decision by aiming for a school where I can leverage existing connections, but be comfortable with the cost of tuition.
Also, thank you for your reply, as it was actually informative. Too often on TLS, the mentality is "OMG I HAVE TO GET INTO HERE BC EVERYTHING ELSE IS SHIT IF ITS NOT T14!" (If you've ever seen 'Summer Heights High', think Ja'mie). I believe a lot of this has to do with a large number of students at Ivy League and other top universities feeling that they HAVE to be the special snowflake, which means attending any T14 school, even if for sticker, and just HAVING to work in NYC, Chicago, or LA. As a result, I feel like there's a belief that Vandy, Duke, and UVA may as well be the only law schools in the south, as every T50 southern law school just has to be bad by virtue of being in the south.
As a native southerner, I politely tell them they can keep that for themselves. I'll enjoy my great cost of living, beautiful year round weather, and the most gorgeous women this nation has to offer.
I would like to see some links to people saying you have to be T14 or bust. I you can't find one. Your strawman signals an alarming lack of analytical thinking skills, and that could spell trouble on your quest to the top 15%.
Georgia State is fine if you don't want big law. If you want big law, that's what the T14 is for. I would target UVA or Duke. Maaaaaybe Vandy if its significantly cheaper than your T14 options (it generally isn't) and you have some sort of guarantee that your previous big law experience will give you some sort of leg up. I'm doubtful it will, grades will probably still be just as important for you as everyone else.
Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:05 am
by deadpanic
Ti Malice wrote:No, having been a paralegal at a firm won't give you any special advantage there.
Pretty much this. Big firms are concerned with prestige, not doing you a personal favor.
If you want to go to GA State just realize that post-graduation, it's very possible that you will be a paralegal again or possibly in some other non-law degree type job.
Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:25 am
by lawhopeful10
I go to UGA and even there for Atlanta firms career services guy said you basically need top 15% there to even be competitive for Atl big law and that is still no sure thing. I imagine Georgia State is top 10% which sure that could be your goal but assume before you go there that will not be your outcome. I spoke to a decent number of attorneys at big law firms in Atlanta and Birmingham and they all said you need the grades to be considered. Just being a paralegal won't give you a magic way to get a job, at least that's the feeling I get.
Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:15 am
by nebula666
SnazzleFrazzle89 wrote:nebula666 wrote:Still shouldn't go at sticker but nobody on this forum will tell you that GSU is a bad option if
1) You are a GA resident and want to work in GA; and
2) You don't want biglaw.
Same reply I gave to NoVa: what's your answer regarding big law when you factor in previous connections and work experience to one if the large firms? Being a known and quality asset by the folks in your practice group has to be worth something, yes?
With big law firms having changed their hiring practices over the past 5-6 years, I imagine a debate for an SA position goes something like this: "Do I take the top 15% GA State grad who has previously worked here and is thought of highly by his practice group? Or do I take the kid from *insert random T14, even though they have similar grades and this person is wholly unfamiliar to us?"
Yes having connections will help you. It's highly unlikely you'll finish in the top 15% though. You should really set realistic expectations before you go to law school because otherwise you will be incredibly depressed when you are at median.
Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:20 am
by deadpanic
nebula666 wrote:SnazzleFrazzle89 wrote:nebula666 wrote:Still shouldn't go at sticker but nobody on this forum will tell you that GSU is a bad option if
1) You are a GA resident and want to work in GA; and
2) You don't want biglaw.
Same reply I gave to NoVa: what's your answer regarding big law when you factor in previous connections and work experience to one if the large firms? Being a known and quality asset by the folks in your practice group has to be worth something, yes?
With big law firms having changed their hiring practices over the past 5-6 years, I imagine a debate for an SA position goes something like this: "Do I take the top 15% GA State grad who has previously worked here and is thought of highly by his practice group? Or do I take the kid from *insert random T14, even though they have similar grades and this person is wholly unfamiliar to us?"
Yes having connections will help you. It's highly unlikely you'll finish in the top 15% though. You should really set realistic expectations before you go to law school because otherwise you will be incredibly depressed when you are at median.
I don't want to give OP the wrong impression. Connections are clearly helpful, but people overestimate their connections way too often. OP doesn't necessarily have that great of a connection. He would still have to kill it grade wise. The connection is probably just enough to win in a tie breaker from someone with similar numbers at a similar school.
Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:11 pm
by BentleyLittle
Not sure if you've seen this but this girl went to GA State. Might be worth the watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i3ARRNbfn8
Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:15 pm
by AT9
OP, you mustn't have been here long enough if you think TLS is completely T14 or bust. I say that because I used to get the same impression when I first started lurking here. It's because so many applicants come here with the impression that graduating from law school will warrant a biglaw-level paying lawyer job, when in fact that's very unlikely from all but a few schools outside the T14. The mantra I've noticed is go to a T14 or to a decent regional so long as a) you'd be happy without biglaw, b) you'd be ok working in that region, c) you emerge with relatively little debt, and d) you have connection to the region in which the school places.
It seems GSU could fit those criteria in your situation, but the first point is the one that isn't clear to me. Would you be happy not working in biglaw and earning that type of salary right after graduation? If not, don't go to GSU. Your work experience will certainly be helpful in landing a job (anywhere), but you shouldn't count on that experience to land a biglaw job given GSU's low biglaw placement. Also, if you're competitive for Emory and UGA, I assume you could get $ from GSU?
Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:43 pm
by nebula666
This girl has the personality of a flip-flop. I can't even imagine how awkward her interviews must have been.
Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:49 pm
by MyNameIsFlynn!
SnazzleFrazzle89 wrote:nebula666 wrote:Still shouldn't go at sticker but nobody on this forum will tell you that GSU is a bad option if
1) You are a GA resident and want to work in GA; and
2) You don't want biglaw.
Same reply I gave to NoVa: what's your answer regarding big law when you factor in previous connections and work experience to one if the large firms? Being a known and quality asset by the folks in your practice group has to be worth something, yes?
With big law firms having changed their hiring practices over the past 5-6 years, I imagine a debate for an SA position goes something like this: "Do I take the top 15% GA State grad who has previously worked here and is thought of highly by his practice group? Or do I take the kid from *insert random T14, even though they have similar grades and this person is wholly unfamiliar to us?"
you imagine the right question but the wrong answer. they'll take T14 every time
Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:53 pm
by timbs4339
Go to GA State if you'd be happy working at a small firm or for local/state gov. Don't go hoping to get biglaw.
If biglaw firms hired every single former paralegal who went to law school there would be no spots for anybody else. Being a paralegal is not going to give you a boost if you don't have the school/grades. You can't assume you'll get the grades. Ergo, retake.
They don't care about "known quantities." As a junior associate or as a paralegal you are essentially fungible. They could find plenty more people to do the jerb then there are spots.
Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:56 pm
by rad lulz
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Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:57 pm
by Ti Malice
nebula666 wrote:
This girl has the personality of a flip-flop. I can't even imagine how awkward her interviews must have been.
Meh. I imagine she's depressed and humiliated as hell. Most people probably wouldn't come off particularly well when being interviewed about how seven years of higher education has led them to piles of debt and a minimum-wage job.
Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:20 am
by deadpanic
Ti Malice wrote:nebula666 wrote:
This girl has the personality of a flip-flop. I can't even imagine how awkward her interviews must have been.
Meh. I imagine she's depressed and humiliated as hell. Most people probably wouldn't come off particularly well when being interviewed about how seven years of higher education has led them to piles of debt and a minimum-wage job.
Plus she only had ONE INTERVIEW. You have to have a resume with a good school & good grades to even get the interview before they can see your personality.
Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:04 pm
by gregfootball2001
rad lulz wrote:timbs4339 wrote:Go to GA State if you'd be happy working at a small firm or for local/state gov. Don't go hoping to get biglaw.
If biglaw firms hired every single former paralegal who went to law school there would be no spots for anybody else. Being a paralegal is not going to give you a boost if you don't have the school/grades. You can't assume you'll get the grades. Ergo, retake.
They don't care about "known quantities." As a junior associate or as a paralegal you are essentially fungible. They could find plenty more people to do the jerb then there are spots.
Being a paralegal may get you a courtesy interview but w out grades/school to back it up you're burnt
Agreed. Having gone through OCI at Georgia this past fall, former paralegals got screeners with their firms, but didn't get callbacks unless they had the grades. If you
have the grades (prolly top 5-10% at GSU for biglaw), you'll have a wonderful tiebreaker - but you gotta get there first.
Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:07 pm
by Nova
all in all, don't go unless you would be perfectly happy not working in big law
Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:58 pm
by californiauser
big law probably shouldn't even be in your vocabulary if you're looking at georgia state and its peer schools
Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:02 pm
by SnazzleFrazzle89
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Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:30 pm
by BigZuck
Oh, we got what you were asking. We just don't think that you're as special as you think you are. There's at least an 80% chance you won't make the grades.
As Nova said, don't go to a school like Georgia State unless you are perfectly happy with working a non-big law job.
Re: Georgia State and job prospects
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:10 pm
by Ti Malice
SnazzleFrazzle89 wrote:gregfootball2001 wrote:rad lulz wrote:timbs4339 wrote:Go to GA State if you'd be happy working at a small firm or for local/state gov. Don't go hoping to get biglaw.
If biglaw firms hired every single former paralegal who went to law school there would be no spots for anybody else. Being a paralegal is not going to give you a boost if you don't have the school/grades. You can't assume you'll get the grades. Ergo, retake.
They don't care about "known quantities." As a junior associate or as a paralegal you are essentially fungible. They could find plenty more people to do the jerb then there are spots.
Being a paralegal may get you a courtesy interview but w out grades/school to back it up you're burnt
Agreed. Having gone through OCI at Georgia this past fall, former paralegals got screeners with their firms, but didn't get callbacks unless they had the grades. If you
have the grades (prolly top 5-10% at GSU for biglaw), you'll have a wonderful tiebreaker - but you gotta get there first.
THANK YOU! Someone finally gets what I was asking.
I know that you will not get a callback if you do not have the grades; that's just going to be the case anywhere. If I didn't have connections, I would not be thinking about Big Law from Georgia State. Period.
I wanted to see if, given connections, Georgia State is a decent option provided I make the grades. If I don't, then that's alright. Tuition is cheap and 1/3 of tuition will be covered by my own savings. However, imagine if I went to a much more expensive and higher ranked school and, for whatever reason, did not secure Big Law. Paying off that debt would be a millstone around my neck for years.
Therefore, Georgia State to me is the best option for a risk averse person like myself.
Best Outcome: Make the grades, utilize my connections, secure Big Law
Worst Outcome: Don't hit the grades, don't get Big Law, find another job, not be 150k in debt.
Everyone understood what you were asking. Your reply, on the other hand, indicates that you're failing to understand the takeaway here, which is that your "connections" are essentially meaningless.