Top Law Schools

173/3.9x MA Male URM here with significant ties to the area. What schools should I be targeting for the Bay Area? HS + Boalt I'd assume but are schools like CCN better choices than Berkeley? From what I understand Berkeley doesn't give that much money, but its very close to the market, while CCN mainly put graduates in NY firms. That being said it seems like a higher ranked school + probably more money would be a better bet even if its on the opposite coast. Are slightly higher ranked schools like Penn/Virginia still worth applying to in this case? Their employment numbers are better but once again its on the opposite coast so its hard to properly compare them. At what point does the T14 start to become more of a regional placement thing?

I'll be financing law school mainly through loans so the more money the better, though I'd still consider top 3 schools with less aid. I don't have that much money to throw in for applications either so I'm just trying to gauge at what point it no longer becomes worth applying to a school in my case. I only have a few fee waivers in the T14 right now though I'm in the process of requesting more.

Thanks.

What are your career goals? With those numbers I'd say enjoy HYS (but really, S) next year.

Career goals are Big Law assuming I have any decent amount of debt (which is very likely in my financial situation). Obviously this becomes much more flexible depending on how much money I get.

Enjoy Stanford. Or your safety, Berkeley

aboutmydaylight wrote:173/3.9x MA Male URM here with significant ties to the area. What schools should I be targeting for the Bay Area? HS + Boalt I'd assume but are schools like CCN better choices than Berkeley? From what I understand Berkeley doesn't give that much money, but its very close to the market, while CCN mainly put graduates in NY firms. That being said it seems like a higher ranked school + probably more money would be a better bet even if its on the opposite coast. Are slightly higher ranked schools like Penn/Virginia still worth applying to in this case? Their employment numbers are better but once again its on the opposite coast so its hard to properly compare them. At what point does the T14 start to become more of a regional placement thing?

I'll be financing law school mainly through loans so the more money the better, though I'd still consider top 3 schools with less aid. I don't have that much money to throw in for applications either so I'm just trying to gauge at what point it no longer becomes worth applying to a school in my case. I only have a few fee waivers in the T14 right now though I'm in the process of requesting more.

Thanks.

If you have to finance law school with 80% of your costs through student loans, don't go to law school. The risk is too high if you don't get a BigLaw job with 200-250K in student loan debt.

dominiquewilkins wrote:

aboutmydaylight wrote:173/3.9x MA Male URM here with significant ties to the area. What schools should I be targeting for the Bay Area? HS + Boalt I'd assume but are schools like CCN better choices than Berkeley? From what I understand Berkeley doesn't give that much money, but its very close to the market, while CCN mainly put graduates in NY firms. That being said it seems like a higher ranked school + probably more money would be a better bet even if its on the opposite coast. Are slightly higher ranked schools like Penn/Virginia still worth applying to in this case? Their employment numbers are better but once again its on the opposite coast so its hard to properly compare them. At what point does the T14 start to become more of a regional placement thing?

I'll be financing law school mainly through loans so the more money the better, though I'd still consider top 3 schools with less aid. I don't have that much money to throw in for applications either so I'm just trying to gauge at what point it no longer becomes worth applying to a school in my case. I only have a few fee waivers in the T14 right now though I'm in the process of requesting more.

Thanks.

If you have to finance law school with 80% of your costs through student loans, don't go to law school. The risk is too high if you don't get a BigLaw job with 200-250K in student loan debt.

URMs enjoy a not-insignificant boost in Biglaw hiring. Most of the URMs at Boalt who want 1L firm jobs get them, let alone those who vie only for 2L summers. He will be fine.

dominiquewilkins wrote:

aboutmydaylight wrote:173/3.9x MA Male URM here with significant ties to the area. What schools should I be targeting for the Bay Area? HS + Boalt I'd assume but are schools like CCN better choices than Berkeley? From what I understand Berkeley doesn't give that much money, but its very close to the market, while CCN mainly put graduates in NY firms. That being said it seems like a higher ranked school + probably more money would be a better bet even if its on the opposite coast. Are slightly higher ranked schools like Penn/Virginia still worth applying to in this case? Their employment numbers are better but once again its on the opposite coast so its hard to properly compare them. At what point does the T14 start to become more of a regional placement thing?

I'll be financing law school mainly through loans so the more money the better, though I'd still consider top 3 schools with less aid. I don't have that much money to throw in for applications either so I'm just trying to gauge at what point it no longer becomes worth applying to a school in my case. I only have a few fee waivers in the T14 right now though I'm in the process of requesting more.

Thanks.

If you have to finance law school with 80% of your costs through student loans, don't go to law school. The risk is too high if you don't get a BigLaw job with 200-250K in student loan debt.

Yeah the odds of a URM missing biglaw are super high from Stanford.

Tanicius wrote:

dominiquewilkins wrote:

aboutmydaylight wrote:173/3.9x MA Male URM here with significant ties to the area. What schools should I be targeting for the Bay Area? HS + Boalt I'd assume but are schools like CCN better choices than Berkeley? From what I understand Berkeley doesn't give that much money, but its very close to the market, while CCN mainly put graduates in NY firms. That being said it seems like a higher ranked school + probably more money would be a better bet even if its on the opposite coast. Are slightly higher ranked schools like Penn/Virginia still worth applying to in this case? Their employment numbers are better but once again its on the opposite coast so its hard to properly compare them. At what point does the T14 start to become more of a regional placement thing?

I'll be financing law school mainly through loans so the more money the better, though I'd still consider top 3 schools with less aid. I don't have that much money to throw in for applications either so I'm just trying to gauge at what point it no longer becomes worth applying to a school in my case. I only have a few fee waivers in the T14 right now though I'm in the process of requesting more.

Thanks.

If you have to finance law school with 80% of your costs through student loans, don't go to law school. The risk is too high if you don't get a BigLaw job with 200-250K in student loan debt.

URMs enjoy a not-insignificant boost in Biglaw hiring. Most of the URMs at Boalt who want 1L firm jobs get them, let alone those who vie only for 2L summers. He will be fine.

So he should risk possibly 200-250K of student loan debt simply because he is a URM?
Too risky.

You should get Berkeley with close to a full ride. Your URM status will help you come hiring time, and chances are, you'll get a job in SF in an office right across from a Stanford grad who's paying 2.5k a month on his student loans while you get to sock a 100k a year away post taxes.

Stanford for you is a $150k~ insurance policy that you won't end up feeling the repercussions of being in the bottom 10% of your class on the very low likelihood that it happens.

dominiquewilkins wrote:

Tanicius wrote:

dominiquewilkins wrote:

aboutmydaylight wrote:173/3.9x MA Male URM here with significant ties to the area. What schools should I be targeting for the Bay Area? HS + Boalt I'd assume but are schools like CCN better choices than Berkeley? From what I understand Berkeley doesn't give that much money, but its very close to the market, while CCN mainly put graduates in NY firms. That being said it seems like a higher ranked school + probably more money would be a better bet even if its on the opposite coast. Are slightly higher ranked schools like Penn/Virginia still worth applying to in this case? Their employment numbers are better but once again its on the opposite coast so its hard to properly compare them. At what point does the T14 start to become more of a regional placement thing?

I'll be financing law school mainly through loans so the more money the better, though I'd still consider top 3 schools with less aid. I don't have that much money to throw in for applications either so I'm just trying to gauge at what point it no longer becomes worth applying to a school in my case. I only have a few fee waivers in the T14 right now though I'm in the process of requesting more.

Thanks.

If you have to finance law school with 80% of your costs through student loans, don't go to law school. The risk is too high if you don't get a BigLaw job with 200-250K in student loan debt.

URMs enjoy a not-insignificant boost in Biglaw hiring. Most of the URMs at Boalt who want 1L firm jobs get them, let alone those who vie only for 2L summers. He will be fine.

So he should risk possibly 200-250K of student loan debt simply because he is a URM?
Too risky.

You said the risk is too high if he doesn't get a biglaw job. OP would get a biglaw job from Stanford if he wants one, regardless of URM status.

As twenty said - it's irrelevant anyway because OP will get $$$ from either Boalt (although Boalt is stingy) or another excellent school.

I'd be very surprised if Boalt didn't give OP a full ride. That said, even for SF, I'd probably take CCN with a full ride over Stanford. I just don't think it will matter because he's way over any threshold Berkeley has for URM money.

dominiquewilkins wrote:

aboutmydaylight wrote:173/3.9x MA Male URM here with significant ties to the area. What schools should I be targeting for the Bay Area? HS + Boalt I'd assume but are schools like CCN better choices than Berkeley? From what I understand Berkeley doesn't give that much money, but its very close to the market, while CCN mainly put graduates in NY firms. That being said it seems like a higher ranked school + probably more money would be a better bet even if its on the opposite coast. Are slightly higher ranked schools like Penn/Virginia still worth applying to in this case? Their employment numbers are better but once again its on the opposite coast so its hard to properly compare them. At what point does the T14 start to become more of a regional placement thing?

I'll be financing law school mainly through loans so the more money the better, though I'd still consider top 3 schools with less aid. I don't have that much money to throw in for applications either so I'm just trying to gauge at what point it no longer becomes worth applying to a school in my case. I only have a few fee waivers in the T14 right now though I'm in the process of requesting more.

Thanks.

If you have to finance law school with 80% of your costs through student loans, don't go to law school. The risk is too high if you don't get a BigLaw job with 200-250K in student loan debt.

You're a wimp.

OP, go to Stanford and stop worrying.

I agree with Stanford as a clear winner here. SF is a tough nut to crack so its best to go to the #1 feeder. Stanford owns the market. We do pretty well in SF at CLS, but firms definitely wait on the results from stanford OCI before responding to our CBs.

Also, they have a very generous need-based aid program. Unless your family is wealthy or you made a lot of money personally this year, you will get some reduction off sticker.

jbagelboy wrote:I agree with Stanford as a clear winner here. SF is a tough nut to crack so its best to go to the #1 feeder. Stanford owns the market. We do pretty well in SF at CLS, but firms definitely wait on the results from stanford OCI before responding to our CBs.

Also, they have a very generous need-based aid program. Unless your family is wealthy or you made a lot of money personally this year, you will get some reduction off sticker.

I agree with this. If you're set on going into SF biglaw, going to CCN (even on a full ride) is a bit of a gamble. Knew plenty of my friends gunning for CA had lots of trouble (from CLS). If you get Stanford, it's a no brainer.

CCN vs. Boalt is closer, but I still think the advantage goes over to Boalt at equal costs. If you get $$ from CCN, you definitely want to request Boalt to match. If they do, I'd go with Boalt.

Penn / Virginia, etc. should not even be considered if you get Stanford or Boalt. "Slightly higher ranked" is meaningless in terms of recruiting, especially in the SF market, which is somewhat insular.

Yale

A URM would have trouble targeting SF big law from CCN?

BigZuck wrote:A URM would have trouble targeting SF big law from CCN?

SF is a rough market and my opinion is that being a URM isn't a significant advantage. I wouldn't call it "insular," but because there are so many applicants to so few positions (relative to other cities) they can be choosy about picking people who can easily convey they want to be there and ties is an easy way to show that.

BigZuck wrote:A URM would have trouble targeting SF big law from CCN?

CA is tough dude

stillwater wrote:Yale

This is only relevant since OP may actually be presented with the choice, but I hardly see how Yale would edge over SLS for firms in the bay area. Professionals in norcal basically worship stanford as far as educational pedigree is concerned

also re: Columbia v Boalt, I think that matters more for SF specifically, but for california more generally, I'm much more prepared to say CLS is a safe bet given what I saw from my friends the past two years in placement and what firm partners say in los angeles and orange county.

jbagelboy wrote:

stillwater wrote:Yale

This is only relevant since OP may actually be presented with the choice, but I hardly see how Yale would edge over SLS for firms in the bay area. Professionals in norcal basically worship stanford as far as educational pedigree is concerned

also re: Columbia v Boalt, I think that matters more for SF specifically, but for california more generally, I'm much more prepared to say CLS is a safe bet given what I saw from my friends the past two years in placement and what firm partners say in los angeles and orange county.

Yale may have the rare bird effect too on the West Coast. But, yes, I suggested Yale because OP has a real shot.

Berkeley's employment numbers (relative to CC) make me pretty iffy about it tbh. Not to downplay it or anything but for a school that largely puts graduates in a market that's literally 20 minutes from the school, only putting about half its students in big law doesn't look to good. Then again Stanford is basically the same (excluding federal clerkship) so maybe that's just the nature of the SF market.

aboutmydaylight wrote:Berkeley's employment numbers (relative to CC) make me pretty iffy about it tbh. Not to downplay it or anything but for a school that largely puts graduates in a market that's literally 20 minutes from the school, only putting about half its students in big law doesn't look to good. Then again Stanford is basically the same (excluding federal clerkship) so maybe that's just the nature of the SF market.

This whole thread is premature. Which schools should you target? All of the top ones. Throw apps to all of em and play their offers against each other, then pick the best offer you have.

Since you are likely to have options, then I'll at least entertain the CCN vs B question. The question is how willing are you to go to NYC if your grades are mediocre or poor? B is gonna give you an advantage at CA firms, but CCN are going to give you an advantage for firms in general (most of which are in NYC). If you are absolutely unwilling to go somewhere other than CA, then the advantage of CCN is minimal to nonexistent. If you were willing to go to NYC if it meant getting a firm job versus not getting one in CA, then there's merit to taking CCN over B. Assuming you aren't categorically against NYC, you have to figure out how much more important CA is to you than ending up at a firm anywhere.