UTexas-Austin vs. Vanderbilt Forum

[runthejewels13]

-UT and Vanderbilt
-Equal Scholarship offers at both
-Loans
-Arkansas
-Big Law/Clerkship


These schools seem so closely ranked and seem to have very similar employment numbers. My only preference is to be in the south. Doesn't matter if its in TX or TN. I'm having a really tough time with this. Seems like COL in Austin is lower then Nashville? Is one of these schools really more "national" then the other or is that just something Vandy pushes more then UT?

[BigZuck]

Please follow directions and answer all the questions in the thread that is stickied at the top of this subforum. We can't help you based on what you provided.

I'm guessing this is a "Neither, retake" situation or more likely a hypo from someone who doesn't actually have these options.

If I were choosing between these two schools and all I wanted was Southern big law, I would pick UVA or Duke.

[runthejewels13]

sorry for not following the rules.

It's not a hypo. I have both of these options. I'll try to provide some more info. I am not interested in retaking the LSAT and re-applying. I'm working with a 3.73/169 . I don't think UVA/Duke are going to accept me and they would also not likely offer me scholarships with those numbers. But out of my two options, does either one really have an advantage over the other? Or is it just , if you want clerkship/biglaw in the southwest go to Texas or if you want clerkship/big law in the southeast (and don't have UVA/Duke as options) go to Vandy?

[AnaMariana42]

Did you unsuccessfully apply to UVA/Duke already? Because one or both of those with 3.73/169 does not seem out of the question. I got Duke with significant scholarship with the same LSAT and significantly lower GPA and that was not super unusual. With a 3.7+ GPA, I'd honestly advise a retake, but even without one a 169 should get you lower T14 with scholarship.

[runthejewels13]

Okay thanks perhaps i need to reevaluate my options.

[arklaw13]

All things equal, UT will obviously be stronger within Texas. Outside of Texas, I'd say its about even. You are correct that UT is more portable to the southwest and that Vandy will probably be more portable in the southeast. The two areas are very different, so take that into consideration. The only places you'll really get "biglaw" in the south are in Texas where UT rules or Atlanta, where Vandy is stronger. DC is possible from either, but you'll have to have excellent grades. The same goes for Nashville firms. The top ones will require top 10 or 20% grades because they don't hire that many people. Texas big law will probably require top 25%, maybe top third.

Have you visited either school? I'd just go with which one you liked more. COL is pretty low in both places.

I'm an Arkansas kid heading to Vandy. I personally prefer the southeast and would never want to live in Texas, so I didn't even apply to UT. Vandy also has a better reputation in Arkansas, if I decide to practice here.

Also, I was admitted to duke with early admission with 169/4.0. Don't know what $$ would have looked like because I never applied.

[BigZuck]

I still don't get how the OP has both Vandy and UT as options this late in the game. And then what the OP said about UVA/Duke sounds like they didn't even apply. This is all very strange to me.

OP, if you want big law/clerkship then don't go to either because you probably won't get those jobs from either school. I mean, going to one of those schools and hoping to get one of those jobs is fine, you just need to realize how unlikely they are. Duke and UVA give you a much more realistic chance at those outcomes. You and I have very similar numbers and I snagged both of those schools with pretty substantial money so it's totally possible for someone with your number profile.

You sure this is not a hypo? You never told us what your cost of attendance would be at each. How much debt would you be in at graduation? I guess gun to my head and both were at equal cost and I just wanted "the south" then I would probably choose Vandy over UT. UT gets the edge for TX and maybe places like NM and everywhere else I'd say its a wash. And by "a wash" I mean I would look at different schools.

UT is out for you because you don't have ties to TX. And definitely retake the LSAT unless you can go to Vandy for cheapish.

[runthejewels13]

Thanks yall those answers are very helpful. I think ill probably go UT or may actually change plans and apply to duke/uva next year. I sorta didnt take the whole law school option as seriously as I should have this cycle so I never really did my homework and applied to the right places. Didnt think i was actually gonna go but now Im feeling more sure of taking the law school path. I am gonna have to finance my school entirely on loans and scholarship so working for a year may actually be a good way to put away some savings to help out.

[BigZuck]

I think it's kind of funny that I said UT is out because you don't have ties there and then that settled it for you, UT is the place you want to be.

How come you ignored the "how much debt will you be in?" question multiple times?

Anyway, good luck, please do think long and hard about retaking and also the implication of going to a school that predominantly places into a market that you don't have ties to (a school where a quarter of the class is not becoming a lawyer no less). I love UT but I would have never chosen it without solid Texas ties and a strong desire to live and work here long term.

[TheThriller]

If you want Texas - go to UT

If you want anywhere else (with the realistic notion that you're gonna have to compete with 14 higher ranked schools) - go to Vandy

[BigZuck]

If you want Texas - go to UT

If you want anywhere else (with the realistic notion that you're gonna have to compete with 14 higher ranked schools) - go to Vandy

While this is some pretty solid pro-Vandy trolling I don't think it's very good advice. I doubt firms in, say, CA really think higher of Vandy than UT. And the fact of the matter is that if someone wanted CA then neither are very good options.

[TheThriller]

If you want Texas - go to UT

If you want anywhere else (with the realistic notion that you're gonna have to compete with 14 higher ranked schools) - go to Vandy

While this is some pretty solid pro-Vandy trolling I don't think it's very good advice. I doubt firms in, say, CA really think higher of Vandy than UT. And the fact of the matter is that if someone wanted CA then neither are very good options.

UT- 67.8% employed in TX,
Vandy - 21.4% employed in TN

The employment seems to suggest that UT keeps more than half of it's class in TX while Vandy grads have a greater geographical distribution. Not to say one is better for the other.

Clearly, tcr on CA would be USC/UCLA anyways.

[BigZuck]

If you want Texas - go to UT

If you want anywhere else (with the realistic notion that you're gonna have to compete with 14 higher ranked schools) - go to Vandy

While this is some pretty solid pro-Vandy trolling I don't think it's very good advice. I doubt firms in, say, CA really think higher of Vandy than UT. And the fact of the matter is that if someone wanted CA then neither are very good options.

UT- 67.8% employed in TX,
Vandy - 21.4% employed in TN

The employment seems to suggest that UT keeps more than half of it's class in TX while Vandy grads have a greater geographical distribution. Not to say one is better for the other.

Clearly, tcr on CA would be USC/UCLA anyways.

CA was just an example. I'm guessing both schools would be considered the same in the northeast, midwest, etc.

As for the numbers- TX has Houston and Dallas, both of which have decent legal markets (Houston I believe is the 4th or 5th largest in the country). Austin, San Antonio, and El Paso are also all decent sized cities. Lots of legal jobs and not much competition from other top schools located close by (UT fans love to say that the next closest comparable school is 1000 miles away). TN has, well...does TN even have cities? Just kidding of course. There's Nashville and Memphis I guess but those legal markets are probably about as large as Austin's. There's just not a lot of instate jobs.

Anyway in doing my own research on schools there didn't seem to me to be a big discernible difference between Vandy and UT other than Vandy being better for "the South" or the southeast broadly defined and UT being better for the southwest (whatever those designations really mean).

Given what the OP said if he had to choose between the two schools I would definitely pick Vandy hands down.

[arklaw13]

If you want Texas - go to UT

If you want anywhere else (with the realistic notion that you're gonna have to compete with 14 higher ranked schools) - go to Vandy

While this is some pretty solid pro-Vandy trolling I don't think it's very good advice. I doubt firms in, say, CA really think higher of Vandy than UT. And the fact of the matter is that if someone wanted CA then neither are very good options.

UT- 67.8% employed in TX,
Vandy - 21.4% employed in TN

The employment seems to suggest that UT keeps more than half of it's class in TX while Vandy grads have a greater geographical distribution. Not to say one is better for the other.

Clearly, tcr on CA would be USC/UCLA anyways.

Much of that difference is probably self-selection, since at least 65% of admits have to be Texas residents and only 10-15% of Vandy admits are from Tennessee. I think a lot of it depends on grades. Great greats at either school will get you in any market you want, as employers respect both of them. People at and below median will have a tougher time getting into firms on either coast. I have heard that a lot of firms from non-TX markets don't take UT grads as seriously because, statistically speaking, two-thirds of them end up staying in Texas.

On the flip side, getting interviews at OCI for firms in CA, for instance, would probably be easier at UT or Vandy than at USC because fewer people bid them.

[jbagelboy]

If you want Texas - go to UT

If you want anywhere else (with the realistic notion that you're gonna have to compete with 14 higher ranked schools) - go to Vandy

While this is some pretty solid pro-Vandy trolling I don't think it's very good advice. I doubt firms in, say, CA really think higher of Vandy than UT. And the fact of the matter is that if someone wanted CA then neither are very good options.

UT- 67.8% employed in TX,
Vandy - 21.4% employed in TN

The employment seems to suggest that UT keeps more than half of it's class in TX while Vandy grads have a greater geographical distribution. Not to say one is better for the other.

Clearly, tcr on CA would be USC/UCLA anyways.

Zuck touched on this, but basically, this is a ridiculous analysis. Texas is the size both in population, geography, and legal market, of the entire deep south. I bet if you looked at Vandy placement in a radius the size of TX with an equal # of metropolitan areas it would be comparable. This says nothing about CA.

[TheThriller]

If you look at the ABA "Top 3" geographic report

UT
Texas - 67.8%
NY - 4.8%
CA - 3.7%

Vandy
TN - 21.4%
NY - 13.2%
GA - 8.1%

If you were to add up UT's placement into its 2nd and 3rd locations twice, it would barely out-place Vandy graduates in NY alone.

Personally I think a large number of UT's numbers are self-selection but I also believe that Vandy is the choice for this individual if they want greater geographic flexibility / has not ties to Texas.

[BigZuck]

If you look at the ABA "Top 3" geographic report

UT
Texas - 67.8%
NY - 4.8%
CA - 3.7%

Vandy
TN - 21.4%
NY - 13.2%
GA - 8.1%

If you were to add up UT's placement into its 2nd and 3rd locations twice, it would barely out-place Vandy graduates in NY alone.

Personally I think a large number of UT's numbers are self-selection but I also believe that Vandy is the choice for this individual if they want greater geographic flexibility / has not ties to Texas.

The only way you can really answer the question about geographical flexibility is to find out what cut offs are for different firms and then compare the two schools. If they dig deeper into Vandys class then Vandy is the more geographically flexible choice. Or if more firms from all over come to Vandy than UT then that says something. But as Sinfiery says the data is shit so we will never know.

I thought deeply about Vandy because my offer there was pretty comparable to UTs. When I asked lawyers in Northern CA (from there originally and so was curious about both schools placement there) the ones I talked to almost always thought more highly of UT. But that's anecdotal so who cares?

Anyway, the sense I got was that both schools are very similar in terms of placement (and again, nationally their placement isn't super amazing. If you have the chops to get in to both you can probably snag at least Cornell or Duke, both of which are better options nationally). Considering the OP is from AR and Vandy is one of the many "Harvard of the South"s that's where I would attend.

[TheThriller]

If you look at the ABA "Top 3" geographic report

UT
Texas - 67.8%
NY - 4.8%
CA - 3.7%

Vandy
TN - 21.4%
NY - 13.2%
GA - 8.1%

If you were to add up UT's placement into its 2nd and 3rd locations twice, it would barely out-place Vandy graduates in NY alone.

Personally I think a large number of UT's numbers are self-selection but I also believe that Vandy is the choice for this individual if they want greater geographic flexibility / has not ties to Texas.

The only way you can really answer the question about geographical flexibility is to find out what cut offs are for different firms and then compare the two schools. If they dig deeper into Vandys class then Vandy is the more geographically flexible choice. Or if more firms from all over come to Vandy than UT then that says something. But as Sinfiery says the data is shit so we will never know.

I thought deeply about Vandy because my offer there was pretty comparable to UTs. When I asked lawyers in Northern CA (from there originally and so was curious about both schools placement there) the ones I talked to almost always thought more highly of UT. But that's anecdotal so who cares?

Anyway, the sense I got was that both schools are very similar in terms of placement (and again, nationally their placement isn't super amazing. If you have the chops to get in to both you can probably snag at least Cornell or Duke, both of which are better options nationally). Considering the OP is from AR and Vandy is one of the many "Harvard of the South"s that's where I would attend.

Isn't Harvard just the Vanderbilt of the North?

Maybe I'm just bitter about UT after they told me sorry, not sorry.