Top Law Schools

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:10 pm**

Just curious to see what the TLS community has to say about these options:

Michigan with a CoA of $83,000

~vs~

Columbia with a CoA of $300,000

CoA details:

Accounts for all 3 years of law school
These are all debt-financed figures
Includes 10-year accumulated interest

Other details:

These are the only two options (consider all other schools withdrawn/rejected/didn't apply to).
I've maxed LSAT attempts and will be attending law school this fall (not re-applying).
I'm not interested in BigLaw.
I have one narrow passion for a very specific public interest field that both schools have a strong program in.
I like both Ann Arbor and New York City.
I want to return to my homestate of California (doing whatever after, just not a stressful job).
I don't like a cut-throat atmosphere.
Seriously drunk off the Ivy prestige factor. A true, unabashed sucker for the "I went to Columbia" line.

Our first instinct would be to ask, "Is there a significant difference between the #4-ranked school and the #9?"

Then we would respond, "That's too close to use rankings. Let's be smarter and compare employment outcomes instead."

But then we'd look at our parameters and realize, "Well we don't care about BigLaw so what exactly can we use to compare these two options?"

And that's why I'm asking TLS!

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:16 pm**

Seriously?

Michigan and it's not even close

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:16 pm**

I'll have more thoughts later, but for now, Michigan is actually lower since there's no way you're going to be putting that on a ten year repayment plan.

Also, dear God, Michigan for double that would outweigh Columbia. This is not a question.

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:18 pm**

If you don't want biglaw, then this is Michigan. No contest.

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:18 pm**

What are your career goals if you don't want biglaw, a clerkship, public interest, or government?

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:19 pm**

scotth724 wrote:What are your career goals if you don't want biglaw, a clerkship, public interest, or government?

I actually just edited that part out and replaced it with the fact that I have a very narrow public interest passion that I won't mention here to stay as anon as possible. Suffice it to say that both schools can get me there with their faculty, curriculum, and specific alumni that I know.

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:20 pm**

What is wrong with you. Go to Mich dude

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:21 pm**

born4law wrote:I am not interested in BigLaw

Michigan. 300k for CLS with no interest in BigLaw? never.

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:22 pm**

Doorkeeper wrote:If you don't want biglaw, then this is Michigan. No contest.

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:24 pm**

Suffice it to say that both schools can get me there with their faculty, curriculum, and specific alumni that I know.

If that's true, then it's Michigan, no question.

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:27 pm**

Honestly, it doesn't matter what his goals are, Michigan should always win here.

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:28 pm**

born4law wrote:
Seriously drunk off the Ivy prestige factor. A true, unabashed sucker for the "I went to Columbia" line.

You would basically be paying $200K to say you went to Columbia. I see no other advantages for Columbia if you don't want biglaw and Michigan has a strong program in whatever your PI field is. None.

Michigan and it's not even close.

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:33 pm**

Okay, so, you either get this:

I want to return to my homestate of California (doing whatever after, just not a stressful job).

OR this.

Seriously drunk off the Ivy prestige factor. A true, unabashed sucker for the "I went to Columbia" line.

So if being in NYC for the next 5+ years doing some of the most stressful work imaginable outside of investment banking and perhaps special ops sounds like a price worth paying for being able to tell girls at the bar that you went to Columbia, then go.

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:34 pm**

CLS is 300k now? jeez...

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:39 pm**

born4law wrote: Seriously drunk off the Ivy prestige factor. A true, unabashed sucker for the "I went to Columbia" line.

From someone who knows, CLS's "Ivy Prestige" factor is almost non-existent. In no conceivable universe is it worth $217,000 more than Michigan.

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:40 pm**

cusenation wrote:CLS is 300k now? jeez...

Yeah, their estimated budget is over 82K this year. Add in the interest and you graduate with over $300K in debt.

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:42 pm**

born4law wrote:[*]Seriously drunk off the Ivy prestige factor. A true, unabashed sucker for the "I went to Columbia" line.[/list]

How are you going to feel when you meet someone who says "I went to Harvard" or "I went to Yale"

There's always someone more prestigious than you. Accept it and move on to the smart choice (Michigan).

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:44 pm**

Doorkeeper wrote:
born4law wrote:[*]Seriously drunk off the Ivy prestige factor. A true, unabashed sucker for the "I went to Columbia" line.[/list]
How are you going to feel when you meet someone who says "I went to Harvard" or "I went to Yale"

There's always someone more prestigious than you. Accept it and move on to the smart choice (Michigan).

This is true. People in the know aren't particularly impressed. People who aren't in the know don't give a shit.

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:45 pm**

Thanks for the responses everyone. You've all provided the gut-check I needed. Life is beyond this "more, more, more" attitude that we can so easily get caught up in. That includes money, prestige, titles, whatever. In certain cases (like my own), it's the overall experience of law school that I will cherish the most, and Michigan truly embodies that. (And obviously the ridiculous difference in $$$)

The only reason I was really considering this is because, like many others, all my life I've strived to get into an Ivy League school and now that option is finally here I can't just throw something like that away without giving it some thought.

Consider my thinking done!

Also...

timbs4339 wrote:
born4law wrote: Seriously drunk off the Ivy prestige factor. A true, unabashed sucker for the "I went to Columbia" line.
From someone who knows, CLS's "Ivy Prestige" factor is almost non-existent. In no conceivable universe is it worth $217,000 more than Michigan.

On the west coast, Columbia commands mad respect. It's definitely Harvard-level. Go figure. But this isn't without merit: they've graduated 9 SCOTUS justices and 2 POTUS's.

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:46 pm**

timbs4339 wrote: People in the know aren't particularly impressed. People who aren't in the know don't give a shit.

Did someone say WUSTL?

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:54 pm**

born4law wrote:On the west coast, Columbia commands mad respect. It's definitely Harvard-level. Go figure. But this isn't without merit: they've graduated 9 SCOTUS justices and 2 POTUS's.

You're not going to be in either of these categories. Just accept that now.

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:56 pm**

Doorkeeper wrote:
born4law wrote:On the west coast, Columbia commands mad respect. It's definitely Harvard-level. Go figure. But this isn't without merit: they've graduated 9 SCOTUS justices and 2 POTUS's.
You're not going to be in either of these categories. Just accept that now.

I know, I was just building a case for CLS's perceived reputation. And maybe I want to be POTUS someday! Don't rain on my parade! Rahm Emanuel didn't even go to law school, dude was freakin' Chief of Staff.

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:10 pm**

born4law wrote:Thanks for the responses everyone. You've all provided the gut-check I needed. Life is beyond this "more, more, more" attitude that we can so easily get caught up in. That includes money, prestige, titles, whatever. In certain cases (like my own), it's the overall experience of law school that I will cherish the most, and Michigan truly embodies that. (And obviously the ridiculous difference in $$$)

The only reason I was really considering this is because, like many others, all my life I've strived to get into an Ivy League school and now that option is finally here I can't just throw something like that away without giving it some thought.

Consider my thinking done!

Also...
timbs4339 wrote:
born4law wrote: Seriously drunk off the Ivy prestige factor. A true, unabashed sucker for the "I went to Columbia" line.
From someone who knows, CLS's "Ivy Prestige" factor is almost non-existent. In no conceivable universe is it worth $217,000 more than Michigan.
On the west coast, Columbia commands mad respect. It's definitely Harvard-level. Go figure. But this isn't without merit: they've graduated 9 SCOTUS justices and 2 POTUS's.

You're a bit rusty on your CLS trivia, neither Roosevelt actually graduated from the law school. FDR was given a JD after his death.

And SCOTUS is pretty much stocked with HY grads for the foreseeable future- even RBG is really only an honorary CLSer since she transferred from HLS just to be with her hubby.

Honestly people have just never seemed that impressed and after awhile it gets old, since everyone you meet has a similar top school background.

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:13 pm**

scotth724 wrote:What are your career goals if you don't want biglaw, a clerkship, public interest, or government?

Irrelevant to this decision. There's no goal that justifies choosing Columbia here.

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:15 pm**

born4law wrote: On the west coast, Columbia commands mad respect. It's definitely Harvard-level. Go figure. But this isn't without merit: they've graduated 9 SCOTUS justices and 2 POTUS's.

Why do you say that about the west coast?

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