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WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:39 pm
by jdb2013
I am currently deciding between a full scholarship from WUSTL (145,035) and a small scholarship from Northwestern (30,000). I am taking out loans to fund anything not covered by scholarship. GULC calculator puts my total indebtedness at $245,885 for northwestern and $87,334 for WUSTL.
I am from NYC, and would like to end up back in NYC. This is very important to me, if not NYC I would consider cali/chicago... have no desire to be in the midwest otherwise. I have some decent ties in NYC. Career goals = big law, maybe eventually in house.
LSAT taken once = 175
GPA = 2.8x
I will absolutely choose one of these options, as such, "neither" or "retake" comments are not needed. Potential exception being my current wait lists at UVA/Michigan/Duke/Cornell.
As far as debt aversion... who likes debt? That being said, I'd rather be in debt having achieved the goal I want than debt free without having achieved my goals.
Re: WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:00 pm
by bananasplit19
LOL, Northwestern must be pretty pissed off at WUSTL for the full-ride bonanza. I had the same decision, with similar stats.
Your priorities are NYC and BigLaw, which make your decision an easy one. My guess is, you know that, have your finger on the NU button, and are just looking for last-minute confirmation? Well, no arguments from me, go to Northwestern.
Re: WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:11 pm
by jdb2013
bananasplit19 wrote:LOL, Northwestern must be pretty pissed off at WUSTL for the full-ride bonanza. I had the same decision, with similar stats.
Your priorities are NYC and BigLaw, which make your decision an easy one. My guess is, you know that, have your finger on the NU button, and are just looking for last-minute confirmation? Well, no arguments from me, go to Northwestern.
That is my general state of mind, although I'm probably a bit more on the fence... especially given the Weil layoffs
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/ ... -pay/?_r=0
Re: WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:13 pm
by sinfiery
Taking on that much debt for education is and will always be a risk. If debt averseness is more important than geographic location or eventual chance of not obtaining biglaw, go to WUTSL, otherwise NU.
Re: WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:15 pm
by simplycatalina
Re: WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:54 pm
by romothesavior
Nearly 30k in COL per year at WUSTL? I spend money like Sterling Archer and I'm not even close to that. You should be way closer to 60k in debt after your 3 years, even assuming no SA and you don't work PT for cash during your three years.
I mean, I'm all for conservative estimates and the GULC calculator is great, but I think you are way high.
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Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:08 pm
by Myself
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Re: WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:35 pm
by Ti Malice
Given how important not winding up in the non-Chicago Midwest is to you, I guess I have to vote NU. But it's definitely with hesitation, because that's a scary amount of debt. If you showed even just moderately greater geographic flexibility, I would vote for WUSTL. (And, as Romo said, you would have to really go out of your way to rack up that kind of COL debt at WUSTL.)
Re: WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:59 pm
by TheZoid
I haven't been through OCI yet, but it seems like you really need to be top 10-15% at WUSTL to have a meaningful shot at NYC big law. You have a shot if you're outside that, but if NYC big law is that important to you, you're taking a fairly significant chance by going to wustl. Seems like you have to bite the bullet and go a quarter mill in debt if you're dead set on NYC.
Re: WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:52 am
by jdb2013
TheZoid wrote:I haven't been through OCI yet, but it seems like you really need to be top 10-15% at WUSTL to have a meaningful shot at NYC big law. You have a shot if you're outside that, but if NYC big law is that important to you, you're taking a fairly significant chance by going to wustl. Seems like you have to bite the bullet and go a quarter mill in debt if you're dead set on NYC.
Yeah, its certainly possible - just not probable. 16% big law and only 7% in nyc at all is a big gamble. I'm sure self selection plays some roll, but the numbers could only change so much.
Re: WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:38 pm
by Robespierre
Roughly a 50% shot at achieving your career goal in exchange for 245K debt? Or roughly a 20% shot at achieving your career goal in exchange for minimal debt? (Romo is correct that if tuition is covered, you can graduate WUSTL with WAY less debt than you're projecting.)
Neither one's a great choice. Only you can make the call. If it were me I'd go with WUSTL. 245K debt will DEFINTITELY be hell if you take it on. NU's placement advantage, on the other hand, MAY OR MAY NOT pay off for you.
Re: WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:23 pm
by Ti Malice
Robespierre wrote:Roughly a 50% shot at achieving your career goal in exchange for 245K debt?
More like 55-60%. But yeah, still scary.
Re: WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:09 pm
by BigZuck
If you want big law then NU is the only choice IMO.
Re: WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:34 pm
by Robespierre
Ti Malice wrote:Robespierre wrote:Roughly a 50% shot at achieving your career goal in exchange for 245K debt?
More like 55-60%. But yeah, still scary.
LST biglaw score for latest NU class is 49.2% But I guess you're saying about 55-60% of those who WANT biglaw get it? I would agree with that. You'd have to make the same adjustment for WUSTL, though.
Re: WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:37 pm
by rad lulz
sinfiery wrote:Taking on that much debt for education is and will always be a risk. If debt averseness is more important than geographic location or eventual chance of not obtaining biglaw, go to WUTSL, otherwise NU.
Re: WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:41 pm
by BarbellDreams
Did you not get into Cornell? Cause that would be the better option over NU at that price for NY biglaw. I would pick WUSTL knowing full well that NY biglaw may not happen and Chicago biglaw may happen but also not the most likely. 60K debt from WUSTL is pretty manageable though. If you are NY or bust I likely wouldn't pick either though.
Re: WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:59 pm
by jdb2013
BarbellDreams wrote:Did you not get into Cornell? Cause that would be the better option over NU at that price for NY biglaw. I would pick WUSTL knowing full well that NY biglaw may not happen and Chicago biglaw may happen but also not the most likely. 60K debt from WUSTL is pretty manageable though. If you are NY or bust I likely wouldn't pick either though.
I'm still on reserve at cornell, however I think I prefer NU... Not to mention cornell is more expensive, especially considering I have 30k at nu and probably nothing at cornell.
Re: WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:19 pm
by bk1
I made a similar choice and chose NU because I had no desire to work in the non-Chicago Midwest. That said, there is a decently high chance (roughly 1/3) that you will get screwed with enormous debt. I took that risk since my prelaw prospects were dead end. It probably wasn't safe or rational, but for super splitters there really are no good choices, only lots of bad ones.
Re: WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:51 pm
by romothesavior
Robespierre wrote:Ti Malice wrote:Robespierre wrote:Roughly a 50% shot at achieving your career goal in exchange for 245K debt?
More like 55-60%. But yeah, still scary.
LST biglaw score for latest NU class is 49.2% But I guess you're saying about 55-60% of those who WANT biglaw get it? I would agree with that. You'd have to make the same adjustment for WUSTL, though.
Also clerkships.
Re: WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:58 pm
by Ti Malice
Robespierre wrote:Ti Malice wrote:Robespierre wrote:Roughly a 50% shot at achieving your career goal in exchange for 245K debt?
More like 55-60%. But yeah, still scary.
LST biglaw score for latest NU class is 49.2% But I guess you're saying about 55-60% of those who WANT biglaw get it? I would agree with that. You'd have to make the same adjustment for WUSTL, though.
I'm going off the BigLaw + FedClerk percentages. Presumably, someone who lands a federal clerkship is either going into BigLaw afterward or could have gotten BigLaw if they had wanted it.
Re: WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:46 pm
by Samara
at people parroting LST big firm percentages as your odds at biglaw. Odds at NU are probably around 70%, provided you are any good at OCI.
Re: WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:03 am
by romothesavior
Samara wrote: at people parroting LST big firm percentages as your odds at biglaw. Odds at NU are probably around 70%, provided you are any good at OCI.
Also this.
Re: WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:32 am
by Cobretti
romothesavior wrote:Samara wrote: at people parroting LST big firm percentages as your odds at biglaw. Odds at NU are probably around 70%, provided you are any good at OCI.
Also this.
TheZoid wrote:I haven't been through OCI yet, but it seems like you really need to be top 10-15% at WUSTL to have a meaningful shot at NYC big law. You have a shot if you're outside that, but if NYC big law is that important to you, you're taking a fairly significant chance by going to wustl. Seems like you have to bite the bullet and go a quarter mill in debt if you're dead set on NYC.
So if we're looking at 1Ls' experiences at each school we're now comparing 70% to 10-15%. How is a gap that large not worth the additional debt?
Re: WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:41 am
by simplycatalina
Cobretti wrote:romothesavior wrote:Samara wrote: at people parroting LST big firm percentages as your odds at biglaw. Odds at NU are probably around 70%, provided you are any good at OCI.
Also this.
TheZoid wrote:I haven't been through OCI yet, but it seems like you really need to be top 10-15% at WUSTL to have a meaningful shot at NYC big law. You have a shot if you're outside that, but if NYC big law is that important to you, you're taking a fairly significant chance by going to wustl. Seems like you have to bite the bullet and go a quarter mill in debt if you're dead set on NYC.
So if we're looking at 1Ls' experiences at each school we're now comparing 70% to 10-15%. How is a gap that large not worth the additional debt?
+1. NU is more likely to get you to your goals OP. There's obviously risk involved but IMO is risk worth taking.
Re: WUSTL($$$$) vs. Northwestern ($)
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:50 am
by jbagelboy
Samara wrote: at people parroting LST big firm percentages as your odds at biglaw. Odds at NU are probably around 70%, provided you are any good at OCI.
so 2012