Cornell and NU at sticker or Vanderbilt with aid Forum

[mr.hands]

Plus, it’s an Ivy.

just barely. and its entirely irrelevant

I'm confused, what does "just barely" in the Ivy League mean? Is there an asterisk next to their names in the sports standings? Princeton lax would love to know.

Meaning in name only. Obviously beyond the sports league, it's a blurred distinction anyway, but HYP don't even think of Cornell as being an Ivy school, socially/competitively (and Dartmouth is more commonly mistaken as an LAC). Here are a few other key historical/thematic distinctions that place Cornell squarely outside the "Ivy" collegiate brand:

1) only school in the league founded after the revolutionary war (1865)
2) only school in the league founded without a sectarian affiliation
3) only school in the league lacking a Latin moto
4) only school in the league ranking outside the Forbes top 50 colleges
5) only school in the league to be coeducational at its founding (cool and more progressive, but not in line with the didactic and 'elite' purpose of the seven others)
6) highest acceptance rate of the league by a wide margin (18% - it's easier to get into Cornell than WashU).
7) Andrew Bernard attended Cornell

I could list more but then it would just seem like I'm trolling on Cornell, which is not my intention. It's still a great university, one of the best in the world .. but it's "just barely" Ivy to those who attend other ivy institutions, which is an asinine distinction at best anyway

ETA: to clarify, this is intended to rebuke the pretense displayed above that would cause someone to choose Cornell over Northwestern, Duke, UVA, ect. on the wholly irrelevant grounds that "Cornell is in the Ivy League"

This is just one long "I recently got into another ivy. This is my obligatory Cornell shaming" post.

Even though i agree with your conclusion, no one cares about the 7 ways in which Cornell isn't a true ivy. It just doesn't matter.

(Also, i dont buy your "clarification" edit. Your OP discusses all the ways in which Cornell is the redheaded stepchild of the ivies. That has nothing to do with non-ivies or choosing law schools. The word "law school" doesn't even appear in your post)

[jbagelboy]

I'm confused, what does "just barely" in the Ivy League mean? Is there an asterisk next to their names in the sports standings? Princeton lax would love to know.

Meaning in name only. Obviously beyond the sports league, it's a blurred distinction anyway, but HYP don't even think of Cornell as being an Ivy school, socially/competitively (and Dartmouth is more commonly mistaken as an LAC). Here are a few other key historical/thematic distinctions that place Cornell squarely outside the "Ivy" collegiate brand:

1) only school in the league founded after the revolutionary war (1865)
2) only school in the league founded without a sectarian affiliation
3) only school in the league lacking a Latin moto
4) only school in the league ranking outside the Forbes top 50 colleges
5) only school in the league to be coeducational at its founding (cool and more progressive, but not in line with the didactic and 'elite' purpose of the seven others)
6) highest acceptance rate of the league by a wide margin (18% - it's easier to get into Cornell than WashU).
7) Andrew Bernard attended Cornell

I could list more but then it would just seem like I'm trolling on Cornell, which is not my intention. It's still a great university, one of the best in the world .. but it's "just barely" Ivy to those who attend other ivy institutions, which is an asinine distinction at best anyway

ETA: to clarify, this is intended to rebuke the pretense displayed above that would cause someone to choose Cornell over Northwestern, Duke, UVA, ect. on the wholly irrelevant grounds that "Cornell is in the Ivy League"

This is just one long "I recently got into another ivy. This is my obligatory Cornell shaming" post.

Even though i agree with your conclusion, no one cares about the 7 ways in which Cornell isn't a true ivy. It just doesn't matter.

(Also, i dont buy your "clarification" edit. Your OP discusses all the ways in which Cornell is the redheaded stepchild of the ivies. That has nothing to do with non-ivies or choosing law schools. The word "law school" doesn't even appear in your post)

Yea its pretty dumb, but remember I was asked about the ways in which Cornell differed. Otherwise I would not have cared to offer them.

Someone just told OP that they should go to Cornell over NU because its an Ivy. So thats how the comment is relevant. Ive seen people make that claim time and time again this cycle. And you're right, the Ivy labeling isnt about law school (which only furthers the point here), but I was asked to clarify my comment, so I did. For what its worth, none of this has anything to do with CLS (but it might have something to do with the fact that I was rejected from Princeton and Harvard as an 18 yr old, but got into Cornell and its peers and visited them, and witnessed first hand the substantial differences and how big a flame it was which was only reinforced by friends at HYP who confirmed this negligent condescension).

[HBBJohnStamos]

(but it might have something to do with the fact that I was rejected from Princeton and Harvard as an 18 yr old, but got into Cornell and its peers and visited them, and witnessed first hand the substantial differences and how big a flame it was which was only reinforced by friends at HYP who confirmed this negligent condescension).

lol, just lol. You're done here.

[jbagelboy]

lol, just lol. You're done here.

You do you, bro. Go chase that faux prestige in the tundra all you like. Go ahead and call it YHCPC > other. Wont change the employment data. Whatever. If someone is going to assign a complex to my posts or attempt to be derivative, least I can do is provide the appropriate anecdote. You're right tho, I am done with this.

OP, for the TCR you need to provide more info as some others have requested. Sorry we derailed your thread

[HBBJohnStamos]

lol, just lol. You're done here.

You do you, bro. Go chase that faux prestige in the tundra all you like. Go ahead and call it YHCPC > other. Wont change the employment data. Whatever. If someone is going to assign a complex to my posts or attempt to be derivative, least I can do is provide the appropriate anecdote. You're right tho, I am done with this.

OP, for the TCR you need to provide more info as some others have requested. Sorry we derailed your thread

A little bleach and some ammonia should clear that complex right up.

[arklaw13]

I voted Vandy, not only because I'm going there. NU's COA is going to be much higher comparing sticker to sticker. The official difference is $5k a year, but Vandy's COA is way overestimated IMO. I'd say a 30k difference over three years. Is NU worth more money than Vandy? Probably, depending on your goals. Is it worth $90k more? I doubt it, unless you're dead set on working in Chicago, which is doubtful if your choices are down to NU, Cornell, and Vandy.

edit: 37k difference according to lawschooltransparency. So a $97k difference all things considered. NU does do quite a bit better for firms of 100+. That being said, I wouldn't take NU for almost $100k more.

[laotze]

I voted Vandy, not only because I'm going there. NU's COA is going to be much higher comparing sticker to sticker. The official difference is $5k a year, but Vandy's COA is way overestimated IMO. I'd say a 30k difference over three years. Is NU worth more money than Vandy? Probably, depending on your goals. Is it worth $90k more? I doubt it, unless you're dead set on working in Chicago, which is doubtful if your choices are down to NU, Cornell, and Vandy.

edit: 37k difference according to lawschooltransparency. So a $97k difference all things considered. NU does do quite a bit better for firms of 100+. That being said, I wouldn't take NU for almost $100k more.

Except that NU is arguably the "safer" bet if you view it from a high stakes gambling perspective. If Hypothetical University A costs $200k but gives you an 50% chance of landing biglaw salary, and Hypothetical University B costs $110k but only gives you a 30% chance of landing biglaw salary, you might be better off with A from a conservative betting standpoint, given the risks of failing to land biglaw salary with that level of debt.

[J-e-L-L-o]

I voted Vandy, not only because I'm going there. NU's COA is going to be much higher comparing sticker to sticker. The official difference is $5k a year, but Vandy's COA is way overestimated IMO. I'd say a 30k difference over three years. Is NU worth more money than Vandy? Probably, depending on your goals. Is it worth $90k more? I doubt it, unless you're dead set on working in Chicago, which is doubtful if your choices are down to NU, Cornell, and Vandy.

edit: 37k difference according to lawschooltransparency. So a $97k difference all things considered. NU does do quite a bit better for firms of 100+. That being said, I wouldn't take NU for almost $100k more.

I'm glad you enjoy the Vandy kool aid since you are attending but let's not motivate posters just because...

Unless you are working in Chicago? And what stats are there that Vandy places in national markets in good enough amounts? The truth is OP hasn't presented enough information to guide an informed decision on the best school for their desired outcome.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=vanderbilt
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=northwestern

The numbers speak for themselves. It's up to the OP to define what trajectory they want.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

None of the above - it's too much fucking money. And add your UG debt to COA, something that's rarely mentioned in these threads. The sticky needs to be updated to reflect this

I have to agree. When the best case scenario is to work your ass off, get big law, graduate, and then pay off the debt in 6 years that is just not worth it. A lot of things have to go right for the above to happen (you have to be mediab at a t14, interview relatively well, and then exceed the average time in big law). Working 60+ hour weeks with all you income consumed by loan payments, rent, and food/drink will not be pleasant.

[laotze]

None of the above - it's too much fucking money. And add your UG debt to COA, something that's rarely mentioned in these threads. The sticky needs to be updated to reflect this

I have to agree. When the best case scenario is to work your ass off, get big law, graduate, and then pay off the debt in 6 years that is just not worth it. A lot of things have to go right for the above to happen (you have to be mediab at a t14, interview relatively well, and then exceed the average time in big law). Working 60+ hour weeks with all you income consumed by loan payments, rent, and food/drink will not be pleasant.

For most people I'd agree, but in the case of jobless liberal arts majors with $50k in debt facing the prospect of permanent unemployment, a career in coffee-dripping, or maaaaybe a $30k salary as a publishing house office monkey if they are lucky, obtaining the T14 law degree at that price might just be worth it.

But again, we have zero relevant information about OP, so who can say?

[arklaw13]

I voted Vandy, not only because I'm going there. NU's COA is going to be much higher comparing sticker to sticker. The official difference is $5k a year, but Vandy's COA is way overestimated IMO. I'd say a 30k difference over three years. Is NU worth more money than Vandy? Probably, depending on your goals. Is it worth $90k more? I doubt it, unless you're dead set on working in Chicago, which is doubtful if your choices are down to NU, Cornell, and Vandy.

edit: 37k difference according to lawschooltransparency. So a $97k difference all things considered. NU does do quite a bit better for firms of 100+. That being said, I wouldn't take NU for almost $100k more.

I'm glad you enjoy the Vandy kool aid since you are attending but let's not motivate posters just because...

Unless you are working in Chicago? And what stats are there that Vandy places in national markets in good enough amounts? The truth is OP hasn't presented enough information to guide an informed decision on the best school for their desired outcome.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=vanderbilt
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=northwestern

The numbers speak for themselves. It's up to the OP to define what trajectory they want.

My point was that if you definitely want Chicago, NU is the obvious choice. 40% of NU grads end up in Illinois and a good amount of that is Chicago big law. In that scenario, NU is definitely worth 100k more because Vandy is unlikely to get you placement in Chicago outside of the very top of the class.

My advice to the OP would be to attempt to get NU to match some or all of Vandy's offer.

Edit: Cornell's employment figures are substantially better than NU's. that might actually be the OP's best bet.

[laotze]

Found these bits by these author:

I am open to practice in the South (preferably FL), DC or Cali.

How much money [from Vandy]? 75
Where do you want to work? Ca, Fl, DC
Where are you from? Mid Atlantic

Still doesn't help much.

[J-e-L-L-o]

I voted Vandy, not only because I'm going there. NU's COA is going to be much higher comparing sticker to sticker. The official difference is $5k a year, but Vandy's COA is way overestimated IMO. I'd say a 30k difference over three years. Is NU worth more money than Vandy? Probably, depending on your goals. Is it worth $90k more? I doubt it, unless you're dead set on working in Chicago, which is doubtful if your choices are down to NU, Cornell, and Vandy.

edit: 37k difference according to lawschooltransparency. So a $97k difference all things considered. NU does do quite a bit better for firms of 100+. That being said, I wouldn't take NU for almost $100k more.

I'm glad you enjoy the Vandy kool aid since you are attending but let's not motivate posters just because...

Unless you are working in Chicago? And what stats are there that Vandy places in national markets in good enough amounts? The truth is OP hasn't presented enough information to guide an informed decision on the best school for their desired outcome.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=vanderbilt
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=northwestern

The numbers speak for themselves. It's up to the OP to define what trajectory they want.

My point was that if you definitely want Chicago, NU is the obvious choice. 40% of NU grads end up in Illinois and a good amount of that is Chicago big law. In that scenario, NU is definitely worth 100k more because Vandy is unlikely to get you placement in Chicago outside of the very top of the class.

My advice to the OP would be to attempt to get NU to match some or all of Vandy's offer.

Edit: Cornell's employment figures are substantially better than NU's. that might actually be the OP's best bet.

Because they only hire NU grads in Chicago right?

You're Vandy trolling hardcore. If OP wants biglaw, a T14 at a 100k difference is worth it over Vandy. If OP just wants to be a lawyer than choose Vandy at the cheaper cost.

[BigZuck]

I voted Vandy, not only because I'm going there. NU's COA is going to be much higher comparing sticker to sticker. The official difference is $5k a year, but Vandy's COA is way overestimated IMO. I'd say a 30k difference over three years. Is NU worth more money than Vandy? Probably, depending on your goals. Is it worth $90k more? I doubt it, unless you're dead set on working in Chicago, which is doubtful if your choices are down to NU, Cornell, and Vandy.

edit: 37k difference according to lawschooltransparency. So a $97k difference all things considered. NU does do quite a bit better for firms of 100+. That being said, I wouldn't take NU for almost $100k more.

I'm glad you enjoy the Vandy kool aid since you are attending but let's not motivate posters just because...

Unless you are working in Chicago? And what stats are there that Vandy places in national markets in good enough amounts? The truth is OP hasn't presented enough information to guide an informed decision on the best school for their desired outcome.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=vanderbilt
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=northwestern

The numbers speak for themselves. It's up to the OP to define what trajectory they want.

My point was that if you definitely want Chicago, NU is the obvious choice. 40% of NU grads end up in Illinois and a good amount of that is Chicago big law. In that scenario, NU is definitely worth 100k more because Vandy is unlikely to get you placement in Chicago outside of the very top of the class.

My advice to the OP would be to attempt to get NU to match some or all of Vandy's offer.

Edit: Cornell's employment figures are substantially better than NU's. that might actually be the OP's best bet.

Because they only hire NU grads in Chicago right?

You're Vandy trolling hardcore. If OP wants biglaw, a T14 at a 100k difference is worth it over Vandy. If OP just wants to be a lawyer than choose Vandy at the cheaper cost.

I can't see GULC ever being worth 100K more than Vandy if all you want is big law

[stuckinthemiddle]

Legit question. Why is everyone voting NU and then explaining that it's the strongest in biglaw? Isn't Cornell better in that respect?

[BigZuck]

Legit question. Why is everyone voting NU and then explaining that it's the strongest in biglaw? Isn't Cornell better in that respect?

NU and Cornell are peers, this year Cornell placed a higher percentage into big law but the year before NU was higher than Cornell. They're probably going to flip flop from year to year but you can't say one is definitively better than the other based on one years worth of data.

[stuckinthemiddle]

That's generally what I thought, which is why I was surprised that the entire first page was filled with "go to NU it's your best shot at biglaw" which is not necessarily true.

But I'll echo what everyone says about the better choice depending on where OP wants to end up geographically.

[justonemoregame]

None of the above - it's too much fucking money. And add your UG debt to COA, something that's rarely mentioned in these threads. The sticky needs to be updated to reflect this

I have to agree. When the best case scenario is to work your ass off, get big law, graduate, and then pay off the debt in 6 years that is just not worth it. A lot of things have to go right for the above to happen (you have to be mediab at a t14, interview relatively well, and then exceed the average time in big law). Working 60+ hour weeks with all you income consumed by loan payments, rent, and food/drink will not be pleasant.

For most people I'd agree, but in the case of jobless liberal arts majors with $50k in debt facing the prospect of permanent unemployment, a career in coffee-dripping, or maaaaybe a $30k salary as a publishing house office monkey if they are lucky, obtaining the T14 law degree at that price might just be worth it.

But again, we have zero relevant information about OP, so who can say?

This would have applied to me generally, but you had to go and mention the publishing office monkey thing, making it a direct hit.

[J-e-L-L-o]

You're Vandy trolling hardcore. If OP wants biglaw, a T14 at a 100k difference is worth it over Vandy. If OP just wants to be a lawyer than choose Vandy at the cheaper cost.

I can't see GULC ever being worth 100K more than Vandy if all you want is big law

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