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GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:52 pm
by Wissper
Decision time:
GW Law with a $14,000 /year scholarship or UMN with a $16000 / year scholarship?
Both schools are ranked close to each other, but GW law employment stats are a bit sketchy since they fund so many of their graduates with 'fellowships'. Even with that though they still place about 1/4 of their graduates in top 250 firms where UMN only does about 11-12% and their class size is smaller.
Does anyone have any insight to either school?
Thanks.
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:53 pm
by Eberry
In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:
-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a
helpful calculator
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:14 pm
by mx23250
One thing to consider is that the cost of living in the twin cities is much less than in the DC area, generally speaking. I'm familiar with both areas and if I recall, cost of living is ~30% more in DC than Minneapolis. That's just one of the many things you can consider if you're weighing the options. Both are great law schools, so you'll do well if you work hard at either one.
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:21 pm
by Wissper
Yeah that's really the biggest difference in cost of attendance is the gap in housing prices between Minneapolis and D.C.
My wife is in real estate so she would probably do better in D.C. since in Minneapolis its frozen over for 5-6 months a year which causes slowdowns in the market since no one wants to move when its -20 outside lol.
I'm curious what place in the graduating class the people doing fellowships after graduation at GWU had - if it is the bottom 23% of the class then that worries me less - unfortunately they don't give that data.
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:22 pm
by timbs4339
Wissper wrote:Yeah that's really the biggest difference in cost of attendance is the gap in housing prices between Minneapolis and D.C.
My wife is in real estate so she would probably do better in D.C. since in Minneapolis its frozen over for 5-6 months a year which causes slowdowns in the market since no one wants to move when its -20 outside lol.
I'm curious what place in the graduating class the people doing fellowships after graduation at GWU had - if it is the bottom 23% of the class then that worries me less - unfortunately they don't give that data.
Legal hiring doesn't work like that (outside of biglaw and other selective hiring organizations). Some in the bottom 20% might have connections or relevant work experience, others around median might be K-JD with no connections. The P2P folks are probably spread all over the bottom half.
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:25 pm
by rad lulz
Eberry wrote:In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:
-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a
helpful calculator
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:41 pm
by Wissper
Good point Timbs... from doing some further reading it does seem that larger firms tend to recruit more consistently from GWU than UMN.
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:08 pm
by Ti Malice
Since there's a post pinned to the top of the board that says "PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING IN THIS FORUM," maybe the mods should just start locking threads of people who insist on ignoring the directions contained therein and wasting everyone's time.
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:24 pm
by chraruce
Ti Malice wrote:Since there's a post pinned to the top of the board that says "PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING IN THIS FORUM," maybe the mods should just start locking threads of people who insist on ignoring the directions contained therein and wasting everyone's time.
Under that same reasoning, we should lock you from posting further since your post just wasted
"everyone's time" as well (emphasis added to highlight the gross inaccuracy of your original statement).
However, to OP, I do agree that you need to tell us a bit more about what you are looking for in a law school so that we can give you insights or opinions regarding your choices. People can give you worthless insights such as "I like one of the girls in my section at GW Law", but I doubt that this insight would help you much. Tell us what makes you tick and we might better help you with your decision.
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:20 pm
by timbs4339
Wissper wrote:Good point Timbs... from doing some further reading it does seem that larger firms tend to recruit more consistently from GWU than UMN.
Yes, but top 25% is still not a good chance. You get better odds walking into a casino and dropping 180K on black.
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:40 pm
by Ti Malice
chraruce wrote:
Under that same reasoning, we should lock you from posting further since your post just wasted "everyone's time" as well (emphasis added to highlight the gross inaccuracy of your original statement).
LOL at your "reasoning," Hastings reject.
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:51 am
by chraruce
Ti Malice wrote:chraruce wrote:
Under that same reasoning, we should lock you from posting further since your post just wasted "everyone's time" as well (emphasis added to highlight the gross inaccuracy of your original statement).
LOL at your "reasoning," Hastings reject.
Gotta love these inferior minds who waste time offending people without contributing anything useful to the conversation.
I'm glad that you realize how laughable the reasoning that I offered is, which is similar to the reasoning that you initially applied. In case your mind can't grasp it yet, let me spell it out for you: ridiculing your reasoning by setting forth a similarly flawed reasoning was my initial point. What truly surprises me is that Yale lets in people like you. An individual with lack of solid reasoning skills (which you have more than proven in these posts) and lack of desire to actually contribute (I thought Yalies wanted to save the world, not bring it down) doesn't reflect well of Yale at all. You must be an anomaly.
I feel bad for the OP though. We're trolling his post.
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:59 am
by rad lulz
,
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:21 am
by Nova
OP, are you cool with living in Minneapolis long term?
chraruce wrote:Gotta love these inferior minds who waste time offending people without contributing anything useful to the conversation.
Ti is cool & contributes a lot
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:28 am
by jbagelboy
chraruce wrote:Ti Malice wrote:chraruce wrote:
Under that same reasoning, we should lock you from posting further since your post just wasted "everyone's time" as well (emphasis added to highlight the gross inaccuracy of your original statement).
LOL at your "reasoning," Hastings reject.
Gotta love these inferior minds who waste time offending people without contributing anything useful to the conversation.
I'm glad that you realize how laughable the reasoning that I offered is, which is similar to the reasoning that you initially applied. In case your mind can't grasp it yet, let me spell it out for you: ridiculing your reasoning by setting forth a similarly flawed reasoning was my initial point. What truly surprises me is that Yale lets in people like you. An individual with lack of solid reasoning skills (which you have more than proven in these posts) and lack of desire to actually contribute (I thought Yalies wanted to save the world, not bring it down) doesn't reflect well of Yale at all. You must be an anomaly.
I feel bad for the OP though. We're trolling his post.
...
no
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:10 am
by Wissper
@Nova - having never lived that far north I can't say for certain that I would want to live there indefinitely
@the angry mob
- the only thing I'm considering is employment probability of both schools based on stats alone. I'm already in, so my GPA / LSAT / how many times I've taken the LSAT don't matter in that respect, but to satisfy curiosity my GPA is 3.91. The programs of both schools are comparable - their rankings are comparable - cost of living is not being factored into this equation, and neither is tuition cost because those are within a couple thousand of each other. Whether I'm taking loans or financing it myself doesn't matter because federal loans in Minneapolis or D.C. have the same interest rate and the tuition is almost identical all things considered (scholarship, books, fees, interest, etc.).
Career goals: To get a well paying position in a firm preferably on the eastern seaboard from North Carolina and up. To this respect the location of D.C. on its face seems to have an advantage. But the employment stats have been fudged so much by their funding of student fellowships at graduation that its hard to read the rest of the numbers accurately (or to trust them entirely) - also only about 30% (I think) of their grads have reported salaries so that makes the numbers there suspect too.
I also would like to work on the law review at whichever school I attend. That seems like it would be easier to obtain at UMN because of the lower class size (280 vs 380 or so I think), but that is something that I could use some insight on.
I have lived all over the country from Atlanta to San Francisco, to Tampa where I am now. I have no ties holding me to any one area over another.
Area of Study: uncertain - but leaning towards corporate/international business right now which both schools seem to excel at.
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:15 am
by guano
Wissper wrote:
Career goals: To get a well paying position in a firm preferably on the eastern seaboard from North Carolina and up.
Then why are you considering moving to the Midwest?
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:16 am
by BigZuck
rad lulz wrote:Eberry wrote:In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:
-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a
helpful calculator
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT
OP still has not done this. And for that reason I do not like the OP.
The answer is clearly "Neither. Retake."
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:22 am
by BigZuck
OP: you're avoiding the most important piece of info because you don't want to hear it. But here is the deal: these schools are trying to take advantage of your laziness to use your gpa for their devious ends. Do not let them do that. Retake.
Also why do people consider going to places like Minnesota to try and backdoor their way to NYC instead of just taking the damn LSAT again and giving themselves a legitimate shot at fulfilling their aspirations?
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:05 am
by Wissper
I'm not asking for advice on whether or not to go to law school now. If you're not going to address my question why even post?
The question is an empirical one, not a subjective one. Given the available information about both schools' employment on graduation - which school gives better prospects?
I also never said I wanted to live in NYC.
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:12 am
by Monochromatic Oeuvre
Wissper wrote:I'm not asking for advice on whether or not to go to law school now. If you're not going to address my question why even post?
Because you presented a false dilemma. You act as though there are two choices, when in fact there is a third, significantly better choice. Pretty much everyone who retakes is glad they did.
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:14 am
by hephaestus
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Wissper wrote:I'm not asking for advice on whether or not to go to law school now. If you're not going to address my question why even post?
Because you presented a false dilemma. You act as though there are two choices, when in fact there is a third, significantly better choice. Pretty much everyone who retakes is glad they did.
Yes. Your goals (well paying firm on the East coast) simply do not match these schools. Retake or don't go to law school.
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:16 am
by rad lulz
,
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:18 am
by BigZuck
The only insight I can provide is that both schools offer middling job prospects and whatever you find (if you even get a job) will probably pay about 50K starting out. Not sure if that qualifies as "well paying" to you or not but it almost certainly won't be enough to pay off your debt.
Re: GW Law vs. U of Minnesota with comparable scholarships
Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:19 am
by BigZuck
rad lulz wrote:Wissper wrote:I'm not asking for advice on whether or not to go to law school now. If you're not going to address my question why even post?
Should I cut off my hand or my foot? Not cutting off a limb is not an option for me for "personal reasons"
Definitely foot, IMO
But non-dominant hand is defensible.