Georgetown ($$) vs. Northwestern ($) Forum

[cowabunga85]

Hi everybody,

I'm in a tough situation and could really use some TLS wisdom. I've been given close to $85,000 in scholarship money from Georgetown and $30,000 from Northwestern. I don't know which school to choose, even though GT has given me way more money. I'm not a huge fan of the massive class sizes and the evidence that GT grads have a more difficult time getting jobs after they graduate. Also, NLJ250 indicates that Northwestern grads have better biglaw job prospects than GT grads. Personally, I would prefer to live in DC but I can't let that shade my judgment if it means I'm going to struggle finding work but at the same time, I've also worked for a few years so might relate more to NU students. Further, I'm going to be taking out loans to cover the difference from scholarship money, so:

Full COA GT: $147,000
Full COA NU: $208,347

Other considerations: I'm from CA and would like to return to the west coast after graduation.

Any advice from you guys would be extremely helpful. Thank you!!

[BigZuck]

Are you a splitter?

I don't think NU is worth 60K more than GULC, especially if you want to live in DC

[cowabunga85]

Thanks for responding! I am a splitter. 3.8, 164. I've taken the LSAT enough. Retake is not an option for me, personally.

I would prefer to live in DC, but I'm not averse to living in Chicago if it means a better chance at biglaw.

[BigZuck]

Thanks for responding! I am a splitter. 3.8, 164. I've taken the LSAT enough. Retake is not an option for me, personally.

I would prefer to live in DC, but I'm not averse to living in Chicago if it means a better chance at biglaw.

No that's actually a reverse splitter. You really need to retake. 5 more points (totally doable) would get you 90K at Duke and Cornell which would be much better options than these.

[cahwc12]

Thanks for responding! I am a splitter. 3.8, 164. I've taken the LSAT enough. Retake is not an option for me, personally.

I would prefer to live in DC, but I'm not averse to living in Chicago if it means a better chance at biglaw.

Those are pretty amazing offers given your well-below median LSAT score. How many times have you taken the LSAT and when were those attempts? What other softs do you have that might explain these offers given your low LSAT?

I would probably take NU and run, but that is still a frightening amount of money to be taking out, and it only is a good bet if you're okay being stuck in biglaw, if you get it and if you can stay in it long enough to pay off your debt.

[cowabunga85]

Oops, yes you're right, reverse splitter. I thought I had typed that, but guess I didn't.

I can't put off law school anymore and I've already taken the test three times, so I personally won't retake it again. These two look like my best options at this point.

[FloridaCoastalorbust]

because both amounts of debt are quite large and the gradations between such debt decrease as you get more debt (e.g. you're fucked either way here if you don't get dat LRAP or biglaw), and because NU places significantly better in biglaw, I would take NU.

[jbagelboy]

Oops, yes you're right, reverse splitter. I thought I had typed that, but guess I didn't.

I can't put off law school anymore and I've already taken the test three times, so I personally won't retake it again. These two look like my best options at this point.

well, this line of reasoning never ends up in a good place on TLS. Everyone will tell you to retake anyway since there's never a really convincing reason you "can't put off law school".

I think your Gtown offer is superior, and $145K is justifiable. Just make sure you're above median. Your options are not that bad so YOLO.

[seagan823]

I live in DC, know Gtown law grads and students, and here is my two cents.

I may be in the minority on TLS, but I think that the relatively larger number of Georgetown grads leaving for work in the Federal Government/PI compared to other T-14 schools is mostly a product of self selection. I think the number of grads in big law/art III are probably slightly higher in terms of the percentage seeking those paths that were able to get jobs on them. If you are debt averse, this is something to consider.


But since you want to return to California, you should note the links below. Double the percentage of NU grads work in Cali, and there are more in firms with 100+ attorneys, regardless of whether my theory is correct or not.


http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... b=location

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... b=location


Also, out of curiousity, how did you get $85,000 out of Georgetown? I really want to go there for PI because I want to work for a legal services org in DC, but it seems like they don't usually even give $$ to 75th percentile people.

[jbagelboy]

One more point to note: at equal cost, I would take NU. Have you negotiated? I got $90K from both NU and Gtown; they matched each other. If you could get that NU offer up to $20K a year, I would take it.

[BigZuck]

Settling for one of these two options when you obviously have a great application other than the LSAT score to match makes me sad in the hearthole.

[cowabunga85]

I negotiated at NU from nothing up to $30,000, so that's probably the max. It looks like their isn't a clear leader here, which reflects my own sentiments.

In terms of getting money from GT, I think my persistence was key. I wasn't annoying, but made sure my name popped up in the admissions office on several occassions.

[Ti Malice]

Averaging the data for the last two graduating classes at each school, you are ~46% more likely to enter BigLaw or a federal clerkship upon graduation from NU than you are from GT. I don't like either of your choices debt-wise, but if I were forced to pick one, I would readily pay the extra money for NU.

I'm largely unpersuaded by the argument that self-selection provides a significant explanation for GT's lower numbers here. Prestigious PI/gov't are barely hiring, and those jobs are both far harder to get and more prestige-oriented than BigLaw. A federal clerkship is very often an important credential for these high-level PI/gov't jobs, and GeorgeTTTown's FedClerk placement is crap. If people were in fact voluntarily declining BigLaw in significant numbers in order to pursue desirable PI/gov't jobs out of GT, then you wouldn't be seeing sub-4% FedClerk placement. Plenty of GT grads work in PI/gov't, but for the vast majority of these people, it's not high-level PI/gov't, and it's not because BigLaw was a viable option that they didn't choose.

edit: typo

[rickgrimes69]

I wouldn't be happy about paying ~$240k for NU (your COA numbers are too low, unless you have savings or something you aren't telling us), but I'd be more happy than paying $150k for GULC. You need Biglaw either way and NU is way better for that, although you have to be ok with the knowledge that you will probably end up in Chicago.

[cowabunga85]

Well, I have a $30,000 scholarship so that drops my COA down for Northwestern. My COA is based on their financial aid package. I know I need biglaw either way, so I'd prefer going to a school where I have the best chance of securing that. It seems like going to NU is way better than GT for this exact reason.

Do you really think going to NU limits my biglaw prospects to only Chicago? I thought NU had pretty good mobility to either coast.

[Cobretti]

Well, I have a $30,000 scholarship so that drops my COA down for Northwestern. My COA is based on their financial aid package. I know I need biglaw either way, so I'd prefer going to a school where I have the best chance of securing that. It seems like going to NU is way better than GT for this exact reason.

Do you really think going to NU limits my biglaw prospects to only Chicago? I thought NU had pretty good mobility to either coast.

About 20% of NU's class is from CA, so its a very popular target market. conventional wisdom from speaking to alumni is above median = CA biglaw from NU

Also you're more likely to get stuck in NYC from NU than Chicago, since the NY market is less competitive than chicago

[BigZuck]

Well, I have a $30,000 scholarship so that drops my COA down for Northwestern. My COA is based on their financial aid package. I know I need biglaw either way, so I'd prefer going to a school where I have the best chance of securing that. It seems like going to NU is way better than GT for this exact reason.

Do you really think going to NU limits my biglaw prospects to only Chicago? I thought NU had pretty good mobility to either coast.

About 20% of NU's class is from CA, so its a very popular target market. conventional wisdom from speaking to alumni is above median = CA biglaw from NU

Also you're more likely to get stuck in NYC from NU than Chicago, since the NY market is less competitive than chicago

I heard roughly top third to get CA big law. Who told you meadian from NU could do the trick? Just wondering

[Cobretti]

Well, I have a $30,000 scholarship so that drops my COA down for Northwestern. My COA is based on their financial aid package. I know I need biglaw either way, so I'd prefer going to a school where I have the best chance of securing that. It seems like going to NU is way better than GT for this exact reason.

Do you really think going to NU limits my biglaw prospects to only Chicago? I thought NU had pretty good mobility to either coast.

About 20% of NU's class is from CA, so its a very popular target market. conventional wisdom from speaking to alumni is above median = CA biglaw from NU

Also you're more likely to get stuck in NYC from NU than Chicago, since the NY market is less competitive than chicago

I heard roughly top third to get CA big law. Who told you meadian from NU could do the trick? Just wondering

V50-100 partner alum told me above median, V10 partner alum told me top 1/3rd

They were both talking about socal though (LA and SD respectively), I know the bay area is more competitive

[20141023]

.

[rickgrimes69]

Thanks to PAYE, nobody "needs" biglaw anymore. Yes, it is a risky investment because there are still a lot of things that have yet to be clarified under PAYE. However, one will be able to live comfortably for at least 20 years after graduating law school because of this repayment program. How the government deals with the tax bomb between now and then will dictate what happens after year 20.

Bolded is exactly why people still need biglaw, at least for the time being. If they fix the tax bomb, we can talk.

[Clearly]

Id go NU here.

[NYstate]

Thanks to PAYE, nobody "needs" biglaw anymore. Yes, it is a risky investment because there are still a lot of things that have yet to be clarified under PAYE. However, one will be able to live comfortably for at least 20 years after graduating law school because of this repayment program. How the government deals with the tax bomb between now and then will dictate what happens after year 20.

How can you give this advice? People will be massively in debt for 20 years. Even without a tax due at the end, this is not a great situation.

Just because you should theoretically be able to live and pay loans doesn't mean this is a great life choice. Not going to law school may turn out to be the best choice by far for many grads. If you aren't getting biglaw or a decent shot at biglaw, going to law school is a difficult choice.

[PRgradBYU]

Settling for one of these two options when you obviously have a great application other than the LSAT score to match makes me sad in the hearthole.

+1. A 3.8 is a too great of a GPA to be wasted on a 164.