Schools likely to move into the T14 Forum

[utlaw2007]

Berkeley, which has had a qualitative reputaiton for grads who never intended to leave the West Coast, and quantitative statistics suggesting at least two-thirds stay in CA.

Couldn't you make the same niche claim about the same amount of Penn grads who hang around Philly or NYC, or NYU/CLS grads who never leave NYC?

But it's not niche if it's on the east coast!!

[071816]

Isn't the "T-14" the 14 schools that have been in the top 10 at some point since USNWR established ranking? So a school would need to make the "top 10" in order to really be considered in the same level...

Correct. For a new LS to appear (Texas, Vandy, UCLA?), it would have to jump over at least four current law schools.

btw: IFF that ever happens, the T-14 will then become the T-15.

It will happen. And the school will be UCI.

[Mr. Frodo]

None /thread

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

How long can Berkeley withstand the worst incoming numbers of T14 and non-top 10 employment prospects? I have no idea what keeps that nuthouse running.

Berkeley has some of the best employment numbers outside of the T6, retard.

Maybe and maybe not. My critieron was per-capita placement at elite firms across the country. In those statistics, while Berkeley has historically beat the pants off nearly everyone on the West Coast, it underperforms, at the very least, MVP and Duke, everywhere else in the country. Those four beat Berkeley, using that parameter, in at least 20 of the top 25 legal markets.

The caveat, of course, is that placement statistics are not the same thing as opportunity--they don't show us what graduates might have had the opportunity to do if they had so chosen. And that becomes a particularly important distinction with Berkeley, which has had a qualitative reputaiton for grads who never intended to leave the West Coast, and quantitative statistics suggesting at least two-thirds stay in CA. This renders it among the most "niche" of the T14, and it also ignores a substantial PI focus.

Every school will, of course, place better in any statistic you use in certain markets than certain others. I would just be extraordinarily skeptical, if I were considering Berkeley, that the placement numbers in so many different markets were behind, at minimum, ten other schools. But then again, I could be biased because a) I never applied to Berkeley, b) I live on the East Coast and c) I'm not sure where I want to practice upon graduation (as many Berkeley gradutes are, it seems).

I think you are clearly biased just as many CA observers will indicate a clear bias. Most people who go to Berkeley intend to work on the west coast, specifically California. Thus, not only will its employment numbers will ebb and sway with the CA market, but you hit the nail on the head with it being a niche school. Now Berkeley grads DO place nationally, but it does not surprise me that they are weaker in midwest and east coast markets than MVP. If someone told me they wanted DC or NYC biglaw, I would say take Penn or UVA over Cal - naturally. It doesn't make Cal a weaker law school, though, considering their CA placement. Correspondingly, Berkeley (along with Stanford, the more elite school) dominates the CA legal market and does great in Seattle too.

I guess it then depends on what your definition of "weaker" employment prospects is. If you are truly set on CA Biglaw then obviously you wouldn't view Berkeley's employment prospects as weak. This would, theoretically, be contigent on having a high percentage of Berkeley applicants be absolutely, one hundred percent sure they want to practice on the west coast. Is that true? I suspect Berkeley applicants to be a little more sure where they want to practice than MVP applicants, but not by a tremendous margin.

The less sure you are of where you want to practice, the more a school's "places well in many different markets" attribute matters. And that's why I would favor a school placing better in probably 20 of the 25 biggest markets. It's the same problem that a school like Emory might have. Yes, it's a great place to be if you are absolutely sure you want to practice in Atlanta. But if you aren't, you are in a much worse position than if you had school that places well in a bunch of different markets. Maybe I'm biased, but it strikes me as restrictive. And I suppose I've predicated my thinking on the idea that most applicants are not absolutely sure where they are going to practice (I could be wrong). As long as that's the case, a school with more broad placement provides more expected utility to its applicants--in other words, it would be better to go to a school which places decently in 20 markets than one which only places decently in five, in my opinion.

Berkeley, which has had a qualitative reputaiton for grads who never intended to leave the West Coast, and quantitative statistics suggesting at least two-thirds stay in CA.

Couldn't you make the same niche claim about the same amount of Penn grads who hang around Philly or NYC, or NYU/CLS grads who never leave NYC?

The term "niche" is roughly equivalent to demonstrating greater and greater bias toward a geographic region. But bias encompasses placement relative to market size. Suppose there were no bias--e.g. the school a graduate went to had no predictive validity on the market he or she practiced in. You would still expect many more grads to end up in NYC than CA, because there are just more jobs there. Suppose for the sake of argument that NYC constituted 30% of the Biglaw market and LA/SF constituted 15%. If NYU places two-thirds of its grads in NYC and Berkeley places two-thirds in LA/SF, then NYU is less "niche" than Berkeley, because it has a lower bias relative to market size. You could be a "niche" LA/SF school to a certain extent, but it's really hard to be a "niche" NYC school--the market is just too darn big.

[rad lulz]

,

[BigZuck]

This thread is the anus of TLS

and you're poasting style prolly makes peoples eyes bleed but nobody gives you shit 4 it

Edit: in b4 "I post from my phone little breh"

[BuckinghamB]

Opinions based off of being a student at Michigan, maybe?

Didn't you also post at one point that you thought Mich was in FREEFALL because South Hall didn't have a name attached to it or something? There are plenty of reasons to think mich is underperforming, but that? lol

[itachiuchiha]

This thread is the anus of TLS

and that makes you the SHIT of TLS

[utlaw2007]

Opinions based off of being a student at Michigan, maybe?

Didn't you also post at one point that you thought Mich was in FREEFALL because South Hall didn't have a name attached to it or something? There are plenty of reasons to think mich is underperforming, but that? lol

South Hall? This is not important, but are you referring to the dorm that is called South Quad?

[BuckinghamB]

Opinions based off of being a student at Michigan, maybe?

Didn't you also post at one point that you thought Mich was in FREEFALL because South Hall didn't have a name attached to it or something? There are plenty of reasons to think mich is underperforming, but that? lol

South Hall? This is not important, but are you referring to the dorm that is called South Quad?

nah, south hall is the new building at the law school that was built a year or two ago

[rad lulz]

This thread is the anus of TLS

and that makes you the SHIT of TLS

lol you watch or have watched naruto

[itachiuchiha]

This thread is the anus of TLS

and that makes you the SHIT of TLS

lol you watch or have watched naruto

so?

[jbagelboy]

This thread is the anus of TLS

and that makes you the SHIT of TLS

lol you watch or have watched naruto

so?

ouch

[itachiuchiha]

Naruto is the shit!

[Dr. Dre]

This thread fucking sucks.

[itachiuchiha]

This thread fucking sucks.

sucks just like The Chronic

[Dr. Dre]

This thread fucking sucks.

sucks just like The Chronic

bro, that's one of the best hip-hop tracks ever.

if you want to diss dre, diss him on lagging the release of detox.

[itachiuchiha]

This thread fucking sucks.

sucks just like The Chronic

bro, that's one of the best hip-hop tracks ever.

if you want to diss dre, diss him on lagging the release of detox.

I know dawg. I was just trying to mess with you.