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GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:05 am
by enidwexler
LSAT: 160 (taken 3 times, not waiting to retake ever again)
UGPA: 3.75+
Public interest-minded. Dream job: ACLU.
Originally from California. Undergrad in Virginia.
Would like to work in DC, with California as a close second.
Haven't made any seat deposits/commitments yet.
Leaning toward GW.
2013-2014
GW: $15,000 need-based, $62,610 loans
Hastings: $5,000 merit, $14,500 need-based, $56,747 loans
Loyola: $30,500 merit, up to ~$3,500 guaranteed summer public interest work stipend, $43,976 loans
Waitlisted at UCLA & Northwestern.
Still waiting on USC (expecting a ding) & UC Davis.
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:10 am
by ManoftheHour
Retake. OP, my LSAT is only slightly higher than yours and my GPA is 0.15 lower than yours and I got better offers. With your GPA, a mid to high 160s score would put you in the running for USC/UCLA with $$$ and the T14s. Just an 8 point increase and you'll be back next year asking if you should go to Georgetown with $ or USC/UCLA with $$$.
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:12 am
by enidwexler
ManoftheHour wrote:Retake. OP, my LSAT is only slightly higher than yours and my GPA is 0.15 lower than yours and I got better offers. With your GPA, a mid to high 160s score would put you in the running for USC/UCLA with $$$ and the T14s. Just an 8 point increase and you'll be back next year asking if you should go to Georgetown with $ or USC/UCLA with $$$.
See edited original post: "taken 3 times, not waiting to retake ever again."
I'm 100% set on law school this Fall.
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:14 am
by ManoftheHour
Then the answer depends on where you want to work. DC, GW. Hastings for Norcal and Loyola for SoCal. Does the Loyola offer come with the 50% stip? If so, I'd lean towards Hastings for Cali overall.
Overall, I'd go with GW. Assuming all the math was done correctly, at that price, it's not bad at all for a T-20.
Good luck!
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:20 am
by enidwexler
ManoftheHour wrote:Then the answer depends on where you want to work. DC, GW. Hastings for Norcal and Loyola for SoCal. Does the Loyola offer come with the 50% stip? If so, I'd lean towards Hastings for Cali overall.
Good luck!
Yes to the top 50% stipulation with the Loyola offer. I'm leaning towards working in DC and going to GW. Figuring LRAP will help with the financial burden.
Thanks!
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:21 am
by Bronck
ManoftheHour wrote:
Assuming all the math was done correctly, at that price, it's not bad at all for a T-20.
I think those numbers are only for one year.... if so, GW at ~190k pre-interest, Hastings at ~170k pre-interest, and Loyola at ~132k pre-interest are financial suicide.
If that's true, then (a) wait and retake or (b) don't go
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:30 am
by enidwexler
Bronck wrote:ManoftheHour wrote:
Assuming all the math was done correctly, at that price, it's not bad at all for a T-20.
I think those numbers are only for one year.... if so, GW at ~190k pre-interest, Hastings at ~170k pre-interest, and Loyola at ~132k pre-interest are financial suicide.
If that's true, then (a) wait and retake or (b) don't go
A.)
enidwexler wrote:See edited original post: "taken 3 times, not waiting to retake ever again." I'm 100% set on law school this Fall.
B.)
enidwexler wrote:Figuring LRAP will help with the financial burden.
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:33 am
by Bronck
That assumes you're going to qualify for LRAP -- securing a PI/gov position isn't exactly a walk in the part ITE.
Moreover, I imagine the LRAPs at these schools aren't particularly good (though someone can correct me if I'm wrong).
If you're not willing to wait and retake, then these simply are not good financial options.
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:19 am
by PDaddy
enidwexler wrote:LSAT: 160 (taken 3 times, not waiting to retake ever again)
UGPA: 3.75+
Public interest-minded. Dream job: ACLU.
Originally from California. Undergrad in Virginia.
Would like to work in DC, with California as a close second.
Haven't made any seat deposits/commitments yet.
Leaning toward GW.
2013-2014
GW: $15,000 need-based, $62,610 loans
Hastings: $5,000 merit, $14,500 need-based, $56,747 loans
Loyola: $30,500 merit, up to ~$3,500 guaranteed summer public interest work stipend, $43,976 loans
Waitlisted at UCLA & Northwestern.
Still waiting on USC (expecting a ding) & UC Davis.
...Good times...
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:29 am
by Paul Campos
Debt totals at repayment:
GW: $232K
Hastings: $210K
Loyola: $162K
"Debts that can't be repaid won't be." Michael Hudson
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:50 am
by BigZuck
Due to debt levels and job prospects from these schools unfortunately you are, in the immortal words of Mr. Pancakes, "disqualified" from attending law school. Attending law school is not a constitutional right and generally not a rational decision. If you really want to go, you have to make it one. Luckily for you you have a very good GPA, now you just have to get an LSAT score to match with it and you will be qualified. At least a 167/168 should do the trick but definitely aim as high as you can. Keep retaking and putting off law school until you hit at least one of those target scores. Good luck!
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:58 am
by timbs4339
You're not going to be working for the ACLU. Much more likely you'll be working for the Pathways to Practice program for 20K per year.
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:09 am
by Bronck
timbs4339 wrote:You're not going to be working for the ACLU. Much more likely you'll be working for the Pathways to Practice program for 20K per year.
I dunno... ACLU is pretty easy to get, just like Wachtell.
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:18 am
by DoveBodyWash
Paul Campos wrote:Debt totals at repayment:
GW: $232K
Hastings: $210K
Loyola: $162K
Neither Loyola or Hastings are worth that kind of debt. GW probably isn't either but it will give you a much better chance at employment than the other two. I would go with GW since you're apparently dead set on attending this year.
I took the LSAT 3 times as well so I sympathize with how terrible it is but...you have a 3.75..a few more points on the LSAT could net better schools and better scholarships from these schools. I realize that TLS has a habit of assuming that improving your LSAT is really easy, and i get that it's not..but I reallyyyyy would hate to see you waste such a good GPA
In the grand scheme of things...a few more months and one more attempt at 100-101 multiple choice questions in exchange for less debt from a potentially better school seems like an amazing deal considering how big of an investment your J.D. will be
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:59 am
by romothesavior
BigZuck wrote:Due to debt levels and job prospects from these schools unfortunately you are, in the immortal words of Mr. Pancakes, "disqualified" from attending law school. Attending law school is not a constitutional right and generally not a rational decision. If you really want to go, you have to make it one. Luckily for you you have a very good GPA, now you just have to get an LSAT score to match with it and you will be qualified. At least a 167/168 should do the trick but definitely aim as high as you can. Keep retaking and putting off law school until you hit at least one of those target scores. Good luck!
Agree with Zuck here. There are a lot of other professions out there besides law, and if you are looking to "help people" via the public interest route, a law degree isn't the best way to go about it anyways. Just go get a job with a non-profit or charity, save yourself from the soul-crushing debt, and go about helping folks that way. The debt you are looking at for these schools is just outrageous, and nowadays, public interest jobs are as hard to come by as big firm jobs (sometimes harder). Unless you take time off, keep trying on the LSAT, and improve your score, I really can't advise you go to any of these schools. Hastings and Loyola have crummy placement (and virtually non-existent placement in DC), and GW is solid, but not worth anywhere near the debt. Good luck.
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:11 pm
by bwi208
PM'ed
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:20 pm
by Ti Malice
As others have said, the only reasonable decisions with those options are: (a) retake, or (b) don't go to law school.
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:28 pm
by NoodleyOne
These are not good options for the price. If you're not going to retake, don't go to law school. If you're 100% set on going to law school, you're 100% set on making a bad life decision.
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:36 pm
by Rahviveh
I would say GW. At this level of debt no matter what you pick you won't be able to service your debt on standard repayment plans. You'll have to go on IBR anyways. So pick the one which has the most access to LRAP-eligible jobs - which I'm guessing is GW.
But even that would be such a terrible waste of a 3.75. I refuse to believe the best you can do is a 160.
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:46 pm
by Curiousone
If you are interested in public interest law at a national level, GW would probably be best if only because it is closer to DC.
If you are concerned about the cost, there are a couple of things you can do, such as going to a less expensive school in year 1 and then transferring into your school of choice. Before you do this make certain you understand the policy of you intended school related to this; or you can always reapply for financial aid after the first year, see if you can get a committment from your school of choice to reconsider your aid after your first year.
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:48 pm
by NoodleyOne
Curiousone wrote:If you are interested in public interest law at a national level, GW would probably be best if only because it is closer to DC.
If you are concerned about the cost, there are a couple of things you can do, such as going to a less expensive school in year 1 and then transferring into your school of choice. Before you do this make certain you understand the policy of you intended school related to this; or you can always reapply for financial aid after the first year, see if you can get a committment from your school of choice to reconsider your aid after your first year.
Wow, this is awful advice.
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:50 pm
by Ti Malice
NoodleyOne wrote:Curiousone wrote:If you are interested in public interest law at a national level, GW would probably be best if only because it is closer to DC.
If you are concerned about the cost, there are a couple of things you can do, such as going to a less expensive school in year 1 and then transferring into your school of choice. Before you do this make certain you understand the policy of you intended school related to this; or you can always reapply for financial aid after the first year, see if you can get a committment from your school of choice to reconsider your aid after your first year.
Wow, this is awful advice.
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:58 pm
by hephaestus
Curiousone wrote:If you are interested in public interest law at a national level, GW would probably be best if only because it is closer to DC.
If you are concerned about the cost, there are a couple of things you can do, such as going to a less expensive school in year 1 and then transferring into your school of choice. Before you do this make certain you understand the policy of you intended school related to this; or you can always reapply for financial aid after the first year, see if you can get a committment from your school of choice to reconsider your aid after your first year.
4 years after joining TLS, and this is the first post. This is suspiciously awful advice.
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:57 pm
by 84651846190
Do not take out six figures of debt to go to any of those law schools. It will forever ruin your life. Think about it. Your whole life is ahead of you. Don't fuck it up just because you can't think of something else to do.
Re: GW vs. Hastings vs. Loyola
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:04 pm
by PRgradBYU
ImNoScar wrote:Curiousone wrote:If you are interested in public interest law at a national level, GW would probably be best if only because it is closer to DC.
If you are concerned about the cost, there are a couple of things you can do, such as going to a less expensive school in year 1 and then transferring into your school of choice. Before you do this make certain you understand the policy of you intended school related to this; or you can always reapply for financial aid after the first year, see if you can get a committment from your school of choice to reconsider your aid after your first year.
4 years after joining TLS, and this is the first post. This is suspiciously awful advice.
"Transferring into your school of choice." No. Just... no.