Top Law Schools

So, i was almost 90% set on going to berk until columbia came knocking at the door yesterday. can't complain about being in this position, but it is a tough one for me. wanted to call on the sages of TLS to help me out with this one.

Money
Columbia: none as of now (assume sticker; might receive financial aid but that is in the works)
Berk: $20k (need-based guaranteed only for first year)

Regional Preference
Would ultimately like to practice in California upon graduating as my family is out there, but wouldn't mind attending school in NYC for another 3 years. most of my friends are here and have lived on east for all my life.

Job Preference
Would ideally like to clerk upon graduating and/or work in PI. I guess my decision, however, will ultimately depend on how my debt situation shapes up to be over my time at law school. thus, biglaw is not completely out of the question.

What say you?

Basically making the exact same choice but with a little more $ from each and NYU in the mix. Very interested in general opinion

I would vote Berkeley given:

1). You want to practice in CA (over 60% of Berk's grads land up in CA)
2). $ at Berkeley

Columbia is a the clear choice. Better employment prospects for pretty much the same cost.

Is is in state tuition at B?

I'm not sure if that 21k is for 1 year or each year. It's based on need and unless you get a 1L/2L SA, I don't see need dramatically changing.

Ofc. it isn't guaranteed.

sinfiery wrote:I'm not sure if that 21k is for 1 year or each year. It's based on need and unless you get a 1L/2L SA, I don't see need dramatically changing.

Ofc. it isn't guaranteed.

it's just for one year. unlike columbia (which locks you in for 3 years for need-based grants once you're awarded them prior to matriculating), berkeley re-evaluates year by year, which makes more sense to me actually.

JamMasterJ wrote:Is is in state tuition at B?

nop. i would only be in-state eligible for 2L and 3L years.

djwjddl wrote:it's just for one year. unlike columbia (which locks you in for 3 years for need-based grants once you're awarded them prior to matriculating), berkeley re-evaluates year by year, which makes more sense to me actually.

Agreed. I'm just not sure one should assume their financial situation would change so dramatically that it would be significantly different of a reward amount next year.

djwjddl wrote:

JamMasterJ wrote:Is is in state tuition at B?

nop. i would only be in-state eligible for 2L and 3L years.

be careful here. no matter what they say at Cal, achieving CA statehood is not so simply achieved after 1 year, so I wouldn't count on this 100%.

banjo wrote:Columbia is a the clear choice. Better employment prospects for pretty much the same cost.

this really depends. for NYC, obviously. but a lot of firms will draw from Cal and Columbia equally, especially in the bay area.

jbagelboy wrote:

djwjddl wrote:

JamMasterJ wrote:Is is in state tuition at B?

nop. i would only be in-state eligible for 2L and 3L years.

be careful here. no matter what they say at Cal, achieving CA statehood is not so simply achieved after 1 year, so I wouldn't count on this 100%.

banjo wrote:Columbia is a the clear choice. Better employment prospects for pretty much the same cost.

this really depends. for NYC, obviously. but a lot of firms will draw from Cal and Columbia equally, especially in the bay area.

well, isn't it pretty straightforward once you meet the requirements below? Lmk if i'm completely off.

1. need to show intent to stay in california (e.g. get a cali driver license, switch bank accounts, etc.)
2. must have been physically residing in california for at least 365 days prior to residence determination date

djwjddl wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

djwjddl wrote:

JamMasterJ wrote:Is is in state tuition at B?

nop. i would only be in-state eligible for 2L and 3L years.

be careful here. no matter what they say at Cal, achieving CA statehood is not so simply achieved after 1 year, so I wouldn't count on this 100%.

well, isn't it pretty straightforward once you meet the requirements below? Lmk if i'm completely off.

1. need to show intent to stay in california (e.g. get a cali driver license, switch bank accounts, etc.)
2. must have been physically residing in california for at least 365 days prior to residence determination date

My understanding is that you have to meet those two requirements to be eligible to apply. it doesn't necessarily mean you will receive CA residency at that time. I went to undergrad in CA (by now I must be fully outed on TLS...) but most of my class came from out of state (although it was private so no tuition difference), and a few friends who tried to get CA residency struggled to be cleared for a while. like at least 6 months after they'd had a year of "residence".

I'm thinking you should anticipate paying out of state tuition at least 1L and 2L. I'm just saying I wouldn't count on it. If you get it cleared for 3L thats good, but definitely don't make a decision between the two schools on the $4K you'd save there

edited for quote fail

jbagelboy wrote:
I'm thinking you should anticipate paying out of state tuition at least 1L and 2L. I'm just saying I wouldn't count on it. If you get it cleared for 3L thats good, but definitely don't make a decision between the two schools on the $4K you'd save there

got it. so you would vote berk then?

djwjddl wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:
I'm thinking you should anticipate paying out of state tuition at least 1L and 2L. I'm just saying I wouldn't count on it. If you get it cleared for 3L thats good, but definitely don't make a decision between the two schools on the $4K you'd save there

got it. so you would vote berk then?

I honestly don't know because I'm struggling with the same decision, I'm sorry. Both are long-shots for fed clerkships but possible. firms may draw deeper into the Columbia class in general, but not in CA. And it sounds like you have a somewhat vague idea of what you want to do but you want to work on the west coast.

Unless you have a specific reason to go to NYC (SO, family, profs at the school), I would take Berkeley in your shoes. It will be inevitably cheaper. Honestly it will just depend on how well you do, and how well you do could depend on what you feel about the place and where you fit in.

Any chance we could get something cheaper than these two options? I guess 60K at Berkeley is not the end of the world but thinking about 200K-300K in debt makes me sad.

These schools have totally different vibes. I suggest you choose the one you feel more comfortable at, because 3 years is a long time just to not fit in with your school.

Slight preference to Berkeley because 1) you want CA more than NYC, 2) you want PI.

Visit both, choose then.

If you would be willing to work in NYC for a few years, CLS still seems like the easy choice. Maximize your chances of getting a job out of OCI. 2ls who have seen OCI data have said that CLS places like H in NYC.

.

I would stick with Berkeley, Columbia isn't exceptional enough, or sufficiently aligned with your goals, to sway it.

Clerk is only a 1 year gig.

Do you want to rely on PSLF/PAYE/IBR/whatever to pay off your loans via PI or do you want biglaw to pay off your loans?


If the answer is biglaw, I'd take CLS.
If the answer is you don't know, I'd take CLS.
If the answer is biglaw only in CA, I'd take Berk
If the answer is PI, I'd take whichever area you prefer to live/work in

Do you have money from any other schools to negotiate with Columbia or Berkeley? Debt load here is scary for both options...

Does Berkeley often re-evaluate your need based aid? What's the chance that you get $20k for each year of school?

Doorkeeper wrote:Do you have money from any other schools to negotiate with Columbia or Berkeley? Debt load here is scary for both options...

Does Berkeley often re-evaluate your need based aid? What's the chance that you get $20k for each year of school?

Only have the 75K and 54k from duke and mich. submitted that to cls to see if they could give me anything. Waiting to hear. Think my chances would be pretty good for getting the grant amount again, given that the grant was based on my having worked in finance prior to applying, and I obviously wouldn't have worked in such a field with such a salary for 2L at least.

Just heard back. 0 scholly from cls

Between these two choices, I vote Duke. Unless the 20K is something you think you can count on all three years. Then I vote Berkeley.