Michigan v. Chicago v. UVA
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:15 am
I'm curious to know what you would choose given these options:
Michigan (45K)
Chicago (15K)
UVA(60K)
Michigan (45K)
Chicago (15K)
UVA(60K)
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https://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=208164
Mal Reynolds wrote:Yale
Mal Reynolds wrote:Yale
Wait, OP got UChi with 3.93/168?Ti Malice wrote:You have a 3.93. Retake that 168 for YHS.
Wait... why is that? I keep seeing this over and over again on TLS. The mantra seems to be that HYS is required for legal academia. But come on now... I'm sure there are plenty of T14-educated people that became law professors. All law professors are from HYS? That can't be true. Surely it increases your chances, but I wouldn't say "Forget it. You're done son." to someone who's got professorial ambitions and doesn't have HYS acceptances.Doorkeeper wrote:Your chances for legal academia coming from HYS are so much higher than any other school
First, if you go to a lower T14 wanting academia, they'll flat out tell you no. Second, just look at the credentials of any list of professors at a major law school. Usually at least 75% are HYS and the other 25% are a mix of every other school. http://www.law.columbia.edu/facultyborn4law wrote:Wait... why is that?Doorkeeper wrote:Your chances for legal academia coming from HYS are so much higher than any other school
Legal academia placement coming from HYS is MUCH stronger than any other law school. Yale and Harvard places 23-30 people into academia every year. Chicago has a good year if it places 5 people (and 1-2 of that 5 will have a PhD). It's definitely not IMPOSSIBLE from a non-HYS school, but it's MUCH harder, especially without a PhD. The difference is definitely worth a year to retake the LSAT and reapply.born4law wrote:Wait... why is that? I keep seeing this over and over again on TLS. The mantra seems to be that HYS is required for legal academia. But come on now... I'm sure there are plenty of T14-educated people that became law professors. All law professors are from HYS? That can't be true. Surely it increases your chances, but I wouldn't say "Forget it. You're done son." to someone who's got professorial ambitions and doesn't have HYS acceptances.Doorkeeper wrote:Your chances for legal academia coming from HYS are so much higher than any other school
What is it about the experience at HYS that makes people more qualified for legal academia? Or is it purely a signaling measure?
Your chances at any corner of the legal profession are much higher out of HYS, of course academia would be included. And I don't want to single you out Doorkeeper as the only person saying this. I see it everywhere on TLS. Just curious what's backing this assertion up.
This is pretty disingenuous. Harvard is 3 times UChicago's size. It does show just how superior Y is to any other school in academic placement though.Doorkeeper wrote:Legal academia placement coming from HYS is MUCH stronger than any other law school. Yale and Harvard places 23-30 people into academia every year. Chicago has a good year if it places 5 people (and 1-2 of that 5 will have a PhD). It's definitely not IMPOSSIBLE from a non-HYS school, but it's MUCH harder, especially without a PhD. The difference is definitely worth a year to retake the LSAT and reapply.born4law wrote:Wait... why is that? I keep seeing this over and over again on TLS. The mantra seems to be that HYS is required for legal academia. But come on now... I'm sure there are plenty of T14-educated people that became law professors. All law professors are from HYS? That can't be true. Surely it increases your chances, but I wouldn't say "Forget it. You're done son." to someone who's got professorial ambitions and doesn't have HYS acceptances.Doorkeeper wrote:Your chances for legal academia coming from HYS are so much higher than any other school
What is it about the experience at HYS that makes people more qualified for legal academia? Or is it purely a signaling measure?
Your chances at any corner of the legal profession are much higher out of HYS, of course academia would be included. And I don't want to single you out Doorkeeper as the only person saying this. I see it everywhere on TLS. Just curious what's backing this assertion up.
Harvard dominates on a per capita basis and on the strength of the placement school as well. It's really not a comparison. Obviously Yale is in a tier of its own, but HY are the next tier, and then way below that is CCN.Emma. wrote:This is pretty disingenuous. Harvard is 3 times UChicago's size. It does show just how superior Y is to any other school in academic placement though.
Good point Emma. Also: no one's answered exactly why HYS is better? Quality of education? Signaling on behalf of academic employers?Emma. wrote:This is pretty disingenuous. Harvard is 3 times UChicago's size. It does show just how superior Y is to any other school in academic placement though.
But the point is that if you normalized these numbers to account for class size it would be more like 15 to 23. Hardly "way below."Doorkeeper wrote:Harvard dominates on a per capita basis and on the strength of the placement school as well. It's really not a comparison. Obviously Yale is in a tier of its own, but HY are the next tier, and then way below that is CCN.Emma. wrote:This is pretty disingenuous. Harvard is 3 times UChicago's size. It does show just how superior Y is to any other school in academic placement though.
Chicago's placement last year = 5 (Detroit Law, Miami, Oklahoma, UVA, and West Virginia)
Harvard's placement last year = 23 (including UVA, Vanderbilt, UCLA, UNC, Minnesota, GWU, and Berkeley)
I don't think the numbers are that far apart between Harvard and Chicago when you factor in class size. Yale is on a different plain.Doorkeeper wrote:Legal academia placement coming from HYS is MUCH stronger than any other law school. Yale and Harvard places 23-30 people into academia every year. Chicago has a good year if it places 5 people (and 1-2 of that 5 will have a PhD). It's definitely not IMPOSSIBLE from a non-HYS school, but it's MUCH harder, especially without a PhD. The difference is definitely worth a year to retake the LSAT and reapply.born4law wrote:Wait... why is that? I keep seeing this over and over again on TLS. The mantra seems to be that HYS is required for legal academia. But come on now... I'm sure there are plenty of T14-educated people that became law professors. All law professors are from HYS? That can't be true. Surely it increases your chances, but I wouldn't say "Forget it. You're done son." to someone who's got professorial ambitions and doesn't have HYS acceptances.Doorkeeper wrote:Your chances for legal academia coming from HYS are so much higher than any other school
What is it about the experience at HYS that makes people more qualified for legal academia? Or is it purely a signaling measure?
Your chances at any corner of the legal profession are much higher out of HYS, of course academia would be included. And I don't want to single you out Doorkeeper as the only person saying this. I see it everywhere on TLS. Just curious what's backing this assertion up.
HYS place 40-50% of of their candidates on the job market into tenure track positions every year. If you want academia bad enough, it's attainable. Most people just aren't serious enough about it.IAFG wrote:Really, the message here should be "almost no one gets to be a legal academic from any school."
I don't understand what you're saying. 40-50% of people who already had a shot at academia?Doorkeeper wrote:HYS place 40-50% of of their candidates on the job market into tenure track positions every year. If you want academia bad enough, it's attainable. Most people just aren't serious enough about it.IAFG wrote:Really, the message here should be "almost no one gets to be a legal academic from any school."
T14 2003-2011 Entry Level Hiring Data:
Total Hires / Class Size / Per Capita Score / +or- from Leiter / Per Capita fluctuation in 08-111 relative to 03-07
Ya 173 / 200 / 0.865 / +.435 / +101%
Ha 187 / 550 / 0.340 / +.160 / +88%
St 59 / 175 / 0.337 / +.167 / +98%
Co 72 / 375 / 0.192 / +.092 / +92%
Ch 48 / 200 / 0.240 / +.090 / +60%
NY 67 / 450 / 0.148 / +.078 / +111%
Pe 24 / 250 / 0.096 / +.036 / +60%
Mi 53 / 375 / 0.141 / +.081 / +135%
Be 42 / 275 / 0.152 / +.082 / +117%
Vi 37 / 375 / 0.098 / +.028 / +40%
Du 16 / 200 / 0.080 / +.030 / +60%
NU 14 / 250 / 0.056 / +.026 / +86%
Co 8 / 200 / 0.040 / +.020 / +100%
Gt 26 / 575 / 0.045 / +.015 / +50%
I just want to point out that the data above shows less of a gap between Chicago (and to a lesser extent Columbia) and H and S, and more of a huge gap between Yale and the rest.ajax adonis wrote:No, there aren't plenty of T-14 grads teaching in law school. You'll see some, but they're the exception--not the rule. Most law profs are from HYS. You'll have a considerable advantage if you go to one of those. Why is that? Probable because of a combination of snobbishness, lack of creativity, and prestige whoring.born4law wrote:Wait... why is that? I keep seeing this over and over again on TLS. The mantra seems to be that HYS is required for legal academia. But come on now... I'm sure there are plenty of T14-educated people that became law professors. All law professors are from HYS? That can't be true. Surely it increases your chances, but I wouldn't say "Forget it. You're done son." to someone who's got professorial ambitions and doesn't have HYS acceptances.Doorkeeper wrote:Your chances for legal academia coming from HYS are so much higher than any other school
What is it about the experience at HYS that makes people more qualified for legal academia? Or is it purely a signaling measure?
Your chances at any corner of the legal profession are much higher out of HYS, of course academia would be included. And I don't want to single you out Doorkeeper as the only person saying this. I see it everywhere on TLS. Just curious what's backing this assertion up.