American University School of Public Affairs vs. Suffolk Law Forum

[treenapolits]

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[scruffy556]

Hi,

So how would you compare the MPP (or MPA) program at American University to going to Suffolk Law?

Thanks.

Why do you think this question required multiple threads?

[treenapolits]

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[rickgrimes69]

You should know that both of these schools are two of the worst in the nation. Both place under 40% into LT, FT legal jobs. Neither is worth attending unless it is for free. I'm not trying to be mean, you just need to know what you're getting yourself into.

Edit: RC fail, didn't notice he wasn't talking about the law school. OP, don't attend Suffolk law.

[treenapolits]

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[hephaestus]

American University School of Public Affairs is ranked #8 in the country for public affairs. Do you mean long-term, full-time legal jobs?

I think he meant American law. Do the MPA.

[Dmini7]

You should know that both of these schools are two of the worst in the nation. Both place under 40% into LT, FT legal jobs. Neither is worth attending unless it is for free. I'm not trying to be mean, you just need to know what you're getting yourself into.

Only one choice is about law school I believe. And LT FT means long term full time employment. I don't think anyone here knows anything about schools masters programs for public affairs. My question is this: is there money in the field? What is your expected income post graduation from such a program. If the debt is less than 250k and or you will make more than 50k when graduating you would be foolish to choose Suffolk law. More than likely going to that law school will not get you a job, and u will be stuck with a mountain of debt.

[treenapolits]

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[hephaestus]

The expected income is essentially the same, around $40,000 a year initially for public interest law or for public interest policy work. Private law practice would of course be more financially rewarding, so Suffolk may leave that door open more than an MPP. However, I'm really more interested in public interest work.

American's Public Affairs school has an employment rate of 88% while Suffolk Law is in the mid-70s.

Lucrative law practice is unavailable from Suffolk. Take the MPA or retake.

[Ti Malice]

American's Public Affairs school has an employment rate of 88% while Suffolk Law is in the mid-70s.

I don't know anything about American's Public Affairs school, but you're looking at the wrong data on Suffolk Law. The total employment percentage is useless. Have you not read any law school-related NYT articles in the last two years? Grads working at Starbucks or driving UPS trucks are counted as "employed."

Here's what matters: for the class of 2012, only 206 out of 517 Suffolk graduates (39.1%) obtained full-time, long-term jobs that required bar passage. Only 46 grads ended up with jobs in firms of 101+ lawyers (i.e. jobs that give someone at least a chance of escaping financial ruin from crushing debt). How does that $240K gamble sound?

[treenapolits]

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[Ti Malice]

Unless you have a scholarship or other outside financial support, yes, you're looking at roughly $240,000 of debt at graduation. (And a Suffolk scholarship will no doubt come with horrible stips anyway.)

[qwertyboard]

American's Public Affairs school has an employment rate of 88% while Suffolk Law is in the mid-70s.

I don't know anything about American's Public Affairs school, but you're looking at the wrong data on Suffolk Law. The total employment percentage is useless. Have you not read any law school-related NYT articles in the last two years? Grads working at Starbucks or driving UPS trucks are counted as "employed."

Here's what matters: for the class of 2012, only 206 out of 517 Suffolk graduates (39.1%) obtained full-time, long-term jobs that required bar passage. Only 46 grads ended up with jobs in firms of 101+ lawyers (i.e. jobs that give someone at least a chance of escaping financial ruin from crushing debt). How does that $240K gamble sound?

$240,000?

He means the cost of attendance to most law schools at sticker. It could be more depending on interest.

[treenapolits]

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[Ti Malice]

I see, you mean including the cost of living.

And including the interest that will accumulate on your loans while you're in school.

[treenapolits]

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[cinephile]

So even if I got into American University Washington College of Law, the only law school founded by women for women's law, to study the ONLY L.L.M. in the country specializing in International Law & Gender, you still think it's not a good enough school to place in a job?

Specialties are meaningless. MEANINGLESS. Nearly all L.L.M.s are meaningless.

You want to do international law and gender, then you go to HYS and have a shot at interning for the UN entity for gender equality. But not otherwise. You need to go to the best possible school not just for these hyper-specific goals, but for any shot of being a lawyer. American cannot place their students. So, why would you go somewhere when you know that you'll end up jobless?

[romothesavior]

OP, you have a lot, and I mean a lot, to learn about law school and the legal market before you make this massive investment into your professional and financial future. I don't mean that to be insulting or snobbish. I mean that sincerely. Right now your posts exhibit a great deal of cluelessness and naivete about the whole process. But thankfully you've come to the right spot. A few things just in response to what you've said in this thread.

1. Yes, $240,000 is a pretty good estimate for the debt you'd be looking at absent outside help or scholarships. Could be more, could be less, but it really doesn't make a difference; neither American or Suffolk (or IMO, any school outside of Harvard, Yale, and Stanford) is worth that kind of money. I wouldn't go to either of those schools without a full ride. Actually I probably wouldn't go to one of those under just about any circumstances. Why? Keep reading.

2. These schools have among the worst job prospects in the country. Please, if you do nothing else and listen to nothing else, please take the time to sift through the data on these two schools. Try to really break it down and understand what it all means. The folks at Law School Transparency have done incredible work to bring 0Ls like yourself thorough, easy to understand data for the first time. This data shows that well under half of the graduates of these schools are landing full-time, long-term, JD-required jobs (i.e., real lawyer jobs). Over half of the class isn't working as an employed lawyer 9 months after graduation. That should scare the hell out of you, especially in light of what I just told you in my first point. Take a look for yourself:

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=american
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=suffolk

3. International law isn't really a thing. It is a marketing ploy used by law schools to lure in unsuspecting prospective students like yourself. In general, working overseas in public interest/government/charitable-type legal work requires 1) extensive experience in the field before law school, and 2) good grades from a very elite school. Few American-born students are able to land these types of jobs, and very few get them outside of the top couple of schools. I go to a top 20 school in the country that "specializes" in international law. I cannot thin of a single American-born JD student in my 3L class who is going to work overseas. There is one girl who might, but that would be as an Army JAG officer. In other words, you will almost certainly not be doing international law. In general, you need to have killer credentials and a killer law school on your resume to have a realistic shot. It is quite possibly the most competitive field of law ther eis.

4. Specialty rankings are even more worthless than the standard USNWR rankings, which is to say... they're less than worthless. Doubly so when the ranking is "international gender studies" or something along those lines. I mean, what is a "gender law lawyer?" If you want to learn about that stuff, take electives. Don't base your investment decision around a field that doesn't exist, at least not for anyone graduating right now.

You need to approach this investment in an informed, rational, and critical manner. Currently, your options are not good at all. Please do your homework on this; don't join the tens of thousands of clueless folks who run off to law school every year, only to wind up miserable, indebted, and un/under-employed three years later.

[Ti Malice]

Listen to Romo, OP. He speaks the truth. I know it's not fun to hear, but there is a yawning chasm between what law school and the legal world are and what you wish they were, and you seriously need to educate yourself as to the former.

No one will care about that LLM. No one. (You're bringing a humanities grad school-like orientation to decisions about law school. Stop. That's completely inapplicable here.) American's LLMs are just a revenue-generation scheme (scam). (Along with their JD program, too, of course.) Yes, I understand how reading about American's noble commitment to public interest law, their wondrous-sounding LLM programs, and their overwhelming advantage of being in DC can all give you the warm fuzzies. Well, fleecing 1,500 students per year to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars per head funds nice advertising copy (minus the typos). Don't trust a thing you read from them. What interest could they have in telling you anything other than what you want to hear?

[worldtraveler]

So even if I got into American University Washington College of Law, the only law school founded by women for women's law, to study the ONLY L.L.M. in the country specializing in International Law & Gender, you still think it's not a good enough school to place in a job?

It's not good enough unless you have mad connections. If you want international human rights law, you need a top 10 law school and a bad ass background.

[treenapolits]

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[TheNextAmendment]

I do not want international human rights' law, I want women's law. American University is the top public interest law school in D.C., I have no interest in corporate law or big law firms. In fact, if I didn't even get a long-term, full-time job as a lawyer, as long as it was in my field, I would be happy. Since I will also be studying Public Policy, I am not afraid of not getting a job.

Dude...420 was a few days ago..

[treenapolits]

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[deuceindc]

In fact, if I didn't even get a long-term, full-time job as a lawyer, as long as it was in my field, I would be happy.

That is the entire and sole point of going to law school. If you don't want to be a lawyer or would be happier doing something else, just don't go to law school.

Since I will also be studying Public Policy, I am not afraid of not getting a job.

You don't need a JD to do public policy. Get an MPP or a policy job if you want policy.

[treenapolits]

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