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It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:35 pm
by moonman157
I appreciate any feedback.
Currently, the two options that I'm considering are NYU with a $50K total scholarship and Cornell with a $105K total scholarship. My goal is NYC biglaw, and NYC is my dream city to live in as I love urban environments and hate small towns. I also want to live somewhere with an active gay scene/population. I also have about 50K saved up specifically for law school. NYU is in my dream location and has better access to the top firms, but Cornell will save me a lot of money. I feel that situation is one where there isn't a definitive clear choice, so I'm posting here. Thank you all very much.
Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:38 pm
by BigZuck
Total cost of attendance for each?
Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:43 pm
by Tiago Splitter
NYU seems worth it here.
Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:44 pm
by moonman157
About 100K for Cornell and 170K for NYU (although parents will be loaning me a large amount of the cost not covered by savings and scholarships so I won't need to pay interest on that).
Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:58 pm
by BigZuck
Tiago Splitter wrote:NYU seems worth it here.
Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:03 pm
by sinfiery
BigZuck wrote:Tiago Splitter wrote:NYU seems worth it here.
Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:09 pm
by chraruce
See:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=183053
Cornell looks better than NYU with regards to big law. Also, it's way cheaper than NYU, in your case. I'd choose Cornell (that's also because I'm in love with that school since I visited for undergrad =) but the numbers also justify it.)
Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:25 pm
by Lavitz
chraruce wrote:See:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=183053
Cornell looks better than NYU with regards to big law. Also, it's way cheaper than NYU, in your case. I'd choose Cornell (that's also because I'm in love with that school since I visited for undergrad =) but the numbers also justify it.)
Class of 2010 data?
Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:26 am
by chraruce
Lavitz, you're right. I stand corrected. The data I provided, even though informative, is outdated.
For the data that I believe is most up-to-date, see:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=207045
Cornell vs NYU look equivalent to me in terms of big firm job opportunities. Cornell is the cheaper option, by far, for the OP.
My vote remains with Cornell in view of the new data.
Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:42 am
by hephaestus
If all you want is big law, then Cornell.
If you specifically want the most prestigious big law (V10), or want to clerk, NYU.
Cornell is fantastic at getting big law in general, but median there makes you more competitive at V30 and below firms. However, I think thats a bad reason to pick NYU. Id pick NYU if you are very interested in clerking, however, since Cornell is middling/bad at AIII among the T14.
Disclosure: I am at Cornell.
Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:23 am
by bowser
why is cornell so bad at AIII clerking? Doesn't really seem to follow.
Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:32 am
by hephaestus
bowser wrote:why is cornell so bad at AIII clerking? Doesn't really seem to follow.
Not sure. However, they have poured significant resources into it the last few years from what current 3Ls tell me. Judging from antecdotes, we seemed to do pretty well this year. However, we don't match even the lower T14 schools that consistently post good numbers (eg UVA).
Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:46 am
by Jose Reyes
sinfiery wrote:BigZuck wrote:Tiago Splitter wrote:NYU seems worth it here.
Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:55 am
by Real Madrid
I really think Cornell is the better choice here. 70k for what seems to be little to no increase in big law prospects doesn't make much sense if what you really want is big law. Also, NYU hasn't been great at AIII clerking lately to the best of my memory. If you are really, really set on NYU, though, I guess I can see an argument for it, too, especially if you want one of the top firms and since you already have money saved up and support from the parents.
Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:55 am
by moonman157
Thanks for the feedback everyone! I don't think I want to clerk, so the difference between the two schools isn't huge for me. Cornell does seem to do very well in terms of overall biglaw, though TLS conventional wisdom seems to be that NYU's overall biglaw numbers are lower due to PI self-selection and under-reporting from some NYC firms (though this could effect Cornell's numbers as well).
Essentially, my dilemma comes down to which will give me a greater quality of life: being in my dream city for three years during a time when I will have free time in my 3L to explore and enjoy the city before the hours of biglaw kick in, and greater access to V10 firms and the exit options they provide, or an extra 70K or so in my bank account. This are obviously very personal questions, so I understand if people have difficulty in answering my original post, but I do appreciate any and all perspectives, especially since I'm weary of the poll results. Thanks again!
Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:02 am
by BigZuck
Real Madrid wrote:I really think Cornell is the better choice here. 70k for what seems to be little to no increase in big law prospects doesn't make much sense if what you really want is big law. Also, NYU hasn't been great at AIII clerking lately to the best of my memory. If you are really, really set on NYU, though, I guess I can see an argument for it, too, especially if you want one of the top firms and since you already have money saved up and support from the parents.
NYU has decidedly better big law placement ability than Cornell according to TLS. This, coupled with the fact that the OP hates small towns and wants to be closer to a large gay community means NYU wins out in my opinion.
100K is a great price for Cornell but 170K interest free doesn't sound like the end of the world for NYU. Besides if he really strikes out then it sounds like he has rich parents to bail him out. He'll be fine.
Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:05 am
by Real Madrid
I was actually in a similar position (w/r/t savings and financial support) and picked Berkeley at what then appeared to be sticker over about 50k from Cornell based solely on the idea that I would be happier in the Bay Area, so I totally understand the "dream city" idea. Mine may not have been the most financially prudent (and yours may not be either), but you only live once. Enjoy it the best you can (but also consider the money!).
Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:26 am
by Real Madrid
BigZuck wrote:Real Madrid wrote:I really think Cornell is the better choice here. 70k for what seems to be little to no increase in big law prospects doesn't make much sense if what you really want is big law. Also, NYU hasn't been great at AIII clerking lately to the best of my memory. If you are really, really set on NYU, though, I guess I can see an argument for it, too, especially if you want one of the top firms and since you already have money saved up and support from the parents.
NYU has decidedly better big law placement ability than Cornell according to TLS. This, coupled with the fact that the OP hates small towns and wants to be closer to a large gay community means NYU wins out in my opinion.
100K is a great price for Cornell but 170K interest free doesn't sound like the end of the world for NYU. Besides if he really strikes out then it sounds like he has rich parents to bail him out. He'll be fine.
That's definitely the conventional wisdom, but I'm not sure where it comes from. I've looked at LST, NLJ numbers, "un-/underemployment" graphs, etc. and it doesn't seem like NYU does markedly better. In fact, Cornell actually does better in some of these measures.
I know NYU students like to discount this with how a lot of students there want PI, and they do have higher PI numbers, but part of that is due to their school-funded positions being counted as PI. Maybe the PI slant is true, maybe it's partially true, or maybe it's just an excuse altogether. But going by the numbers alone, I don't see where that idea comes from.
Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:44 am
by hephaestus
moonman157 wrote:Thanks for the feedback everyone! I don't think I want to clerk, so the difference between the two schools isn't huge for me. Cornell does seem to do very well in terms of overall biglaw, though TLS conventional wisdom seems to be that NYU's overall biglaw numbers are lower due to PI self-selection and under-reporting from some NYC firms (though this could effect Cornell's numbers as well).
Essentially, my dilemma comes down to which will give me a greater quality of life: being in my dream city for three years during a time when I will have free time in my 3L to explore and enjoy the city before the hours of biglaw kick in, and greater access to V10 firms and the exit options they provide, or an extra 70K or so in my bank account. This are obviously very personal questions, so I understand if people have difficulty in answering my original post, but I do appreciate any and all perspectives, especially since I'm weary of the poll results. Thanks again!
I think 70k is worth trading the higher QoL in NYC. Thats a significant difference in the monthly payments that you will have to make once you are working in big law. That gives you two options: (1) you can afford more once you actually start working, (2) you can live at the same standard but make larger payments, allowing you to exit a year or two earlier.
Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:49 am
by dixiecupdrinking
Anecdotally, I have heard from students/graduates there that the vast majority of Cornell students try for biglaw, while I would say at least 10% of NYU students are dead set on public interest work (there are easily 40-50 people in the NYU c/o 2013 who never had any interest in biglaw). Self-selection gets pooh-poohed on here because TLS has trouble believing people don't want biglaw jobs, but it's a big factor at NYU.
All this is to say that just because the NLJ percentages are similar does not mean Cornell places as well as NYU.
Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:31 am
by DaRascal
It's all about the U! Go to NYU dude
Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:40 am
by moonman157
Bump to see if anyone else has some thoughts. Thanks again!
Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:27 am
by annieT
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Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:28 am
by gaud
Jose Reyes wrote:sinfiery wrote:BigZuck wrote:Tiago Splitter wrote:NYU seems worth it here.
Re: It's that time of year again...NYU vs. Cornell
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:44 am
by cahwc12
moonman157 wrote:I appreciate any feedback.
Currently, the two options that I'm considering are NYU with a $50K total scholarship and Cornell with a $105K total scholarship. My goal is NYC biglaw, and NYC is my dream city to live in as I love urban environments and hate small towns. I also want to live somewhere with an active gay scene/population. I also have about 50K saved up specifically for law school. NYU is in my dream location and has better access to the top firms, but Cornell will save me a lot of money. I feel that situation is one where there isn't a definitive clear choice, so I'm posting here. Thank you all very much.
If NYC biglaw is really all you care about, I think Cornell runs away with it. They have very similar NYC biglaw placements, and Cornell at that price will save you about $100k after interest/COL is factored in (vs NYU @$50k). And when you decide the second week you're there that you hate biglaw, Cornell gives you the option to leave sooner since you'll have less debt to pay off.
Are you sure that you can't get NYU to up the ante a little bit? If they do, you could leverage that back against Cornell again. Given your numbers and the scholarship offers on the table, it seems like you have some room to play. You could probably pit Cornell against Michigan, then Michigan against NYU, and finally NYU back to Cornell.
Your seat deposit isn't due for a while, and you have plenty of time to do a discount double check.
