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Trying to figure out if opportunity to go to HLS (clerkships, DOJ, etc) is worth 150-200K in loans (figuring out my own personal ability to pay some portion) over Penn for free. Would like to clerk for 2 years then go BigLaw -> DOJ or something similar. Any thoughts?

Personally, I'd go with HLS, but Penn is a much better choice in this situation.

Penn.

There are very few things that are worth that kind of money. Most people, within 3 years of their BigLaw job realize that the things that make them happy in life are the ones that occur outside work hours -- and that they have very few of those hours in their lives.

Harvard is not going to get you a civil service job in the government that much more easily than any other schools.

And if you have a named scholarship, you can always list that on your resume. It's basically code for: got into Harvard but was too smart to pay for the "prestige."

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H will give you a much better chance at a clerkship, but...

Dat debt, man. I'm really debt averse, so I would do Penn all day.

If you don't want to be POTUS, a Supreme Court Justice or professor at a T-10 LS, I would attend Penn. An Ivy league law school for close to free is a big deal.

I am cheap motherfucker. I stayed in the most ghetto dorm on the entire campus at my undergrad. I was paying like $1,098 per semester for my first year. According to TLS, you will probably still end up like with $60K in COL loans. If I was attending Penn with a full ride, I could probably make it out of there with under $40K in COL loans. In fact, I would probably be closer to $20K after factoring in the money made from my summer 2L year. You know what-- scratch that-- I would probably leave Penn debt free, because I have $60K in savings. Some people just aren't very good in managing their money.

I would be all over Penn if I were you, if not just for the flexibility of graduating virtually debt-free.

SKDJD wrote:Would like to clerk for 2 years then go BigLaw -> DOJ or something similar. Any thoughts?

The biglaw to DOJ move is based on your firm and network post-law school, so basically all you should be concerned about is placement into NY/DC and clerking. Harvard is obviously better, but is 6-7 percentage points worth $200k to you?

I'm prob gonna be alone on this, but if it were me I'd choose Harvard and never look back.

Penn.

Penn unless Harvard gives you a slam dunk need based discount

jbagelboy wrote:Penn unless Harvard gives you a slam dunk need based discount

Or if you want academia.

Otherwise, this is TCR.

Penn.

I'd take NU with a full ride over HLS. Penn this shouldn't even be a question.

LISTEN TO THESE SCHOLARS!!! bottom line is that nobody can answer this for you. HTH.

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If you want a clerkship the answer is Harvard.

TooOld4This wrote:Penn.

Most people, within 3 years of their BigLaw job realize that the things that make them happy in life...

Like having the degree, experience, friends, contacts, prestige, job opportunities from Harvard Law...

TooOld4This wrote:are the ones that occur outside work hours -- and that they have very few of those hours in their lives.

That is absurd. Having a job you enjoy immensely improves your life satisfaction and overall happiness.

TooOld4This wrote: Harvard is not going to get you a civil service job in the government that much more easily than any other schools.

People can basically get away with making imprecise, baseless statements of this sort all they want to. What exactly does "that much more easily" mean and can you please explain what allows you to draw this conclusion?

Harvard offers benefits in almost every domain. They add up over the course of one's life.

TooOld4This wrote: And if you have a named scholarship, you can always list that on your resume. It's basically code for: got into Harvard but was too smart to pay for the "prestige."

People get full rides to T14 schools quite often without getting admitted to Harvard. The exceptions are the Hamilton and Rubenstein, although a few have gotten these without being admitted to Harvard. Few if any employers will care what you paid to attend the law school you attended. They will care where you finished in your class and what school you attended, which is much more indicative of future performance. Clients will also not have a clue what the implications of full ride to school X are, they will not care, and good luck telling them or anyone else about your full ride and not coming off as trying way too hard to impress.

bizzybone1313 wrote:If you don't want to be POTUS, a Supreme Court Justice or professor at a T-10 LS, I would attend Penn. An Ivy league law school for close to free is a big deal.

This T-10 distinction is stupid. A HLS degree significantly improves prospects for being a law professor at any law school. The Ivy League distinction is also stupid.

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Penn.

In other threads you have opined that Penn is better than NYU, which is baseless and suggests your opinion of Penn may be inflated.

Rlabo wrote:I'm prob gonna be alone on this, but if it were me I'd choose Harvard and never look back.

You're not alone. I think Harvard is actually the less risky option on a holistic life satisfaction basis (rather than a narrow, short-sighted financial analysis), and the school will pay off your debt if you aren't in a lucrative job, anyway.

Here are some links to old HamRub vs. Harvard threads and the newest one.

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=203498

Ghost93 wrote:

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Penn.

Dont underestimate the effects of having over 200k in debt.

Also, saying that Penn>NYU is "baseless" is pretty stupid. Unless you think years of employment data is baseless. Personally, I dont know if Penn is greater than NYU or not, but there is certainly more than enough data to reasonably support that conclusion.

Revolver066 wrote: Personally, I dont know if Penn is greater than NYU or not, but there is certainly more than enough data to reasonably support that conclusion.

No, there isn't.

UtilityMonster wrote:

Revolver066 wrote: Personally, I dont know if Penn is greater than NYU or not, but there is certainly more than enough data to reasonably support that conclusion.

No, there isn't.

Revolver066 wrote:

UtilityMonster wrote:

Revolver066 wrote: Personally, I dont know if Penn is greater than NYU or not, but there is certainly more than enough data to reasonably support that conclusion.

No, there isn't.

Yes there is. PM me if you want to talk about it, as it's not a conversation relevant to this thread. It's actually fairly straightforward, though.

Penn isn't going to close any doors for what you want to do. And it's not like if you went to Harvard prestigious clerkships or DOJ offers are going to just drop in your lap. At either school, you will have to do well.

And think about the dark debt cloud that will hover over you throughout school and well into your career. Penn grads in biglaw make the same salaries and have access to the same firms as Harvard grads. As a Penn grad though, you would have 30-50k more money a year during your youth. That is awesome!

Harvard gives confidence in that ability to pay off the debt, no doubt, but you still have to actually do it. The LRAP is awesome but it won't pay a dime when you're at biglaw. That will be your money you could have been pocketing or investing or spending on super sweet jet skis custom painted with flames and skulls!