University of Arizona vs Loyola$ vs USD Forum

[ashawnt]

Hey everyone so im having a difficult time choosing between these schools. Im a San Diego native and would prefer to stay in Southern California however the University of Arizona's rank,employment statistics,COL as well as reduced in state tuition for my second and third year make my choice difficult. Loyola gave me only a small scholarship 22,500 total (7,500/yr) which im gonna try to get bumped but Arizona would still most likely be cheaper. Quite frankly i'm a little jittery about the fact the California legal market is doing so poorly and all cali law schools ranks plummeted...It seems that Arizona's market is fairing much better. I recently read that University of Arizona has the third highest employment percentages in the region after Stanford and Berkeley? How hard do you think it would be to transition back into California legal market from University OF Arizona? Should I just stay local?

[bchirco]

Retake for UCLA, USC, etc. etc.

If not, Arizona is WAY ahead of loyola and USD. In fact, don't consider USD at all w/o significant money. Loyola would not be the worst decision if you were able to increase your scholarship but still UofA is a much better school and way more respected.

I'm not sure that you can get the Cali market with it but you will have a hell of a lot easier time getting a job if you are at the top of your class with an Arizona degree over Loyola.

Retake > Arizona > Loyola $$$ > USD free.

[ashawnt]

Thanks for the quick reply bchirco I have subconsciously been leaning towards attending Arizona but any validation really helps put my mind at ease. Anyone else have any thoughts on my predicament or know how Arizona would place in California?

[romothesavior]

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=206299

We need more info to be able to really help.

[Itinerant]

Retake for UCLA, USC, etc. etc.

If not, Arizona is WAY ahead of loyola and USD. In fact, don't consider USD at all w/o significant money. Loyola would not be the worst decision if you were able to increase your scholarship but still UofA is a much better school and way more respected.

I'm not sure that you can get the Cali market with it but you will have a hell of a lot easier time getting a job if you are at the top of your class with an Arizona degree over Loyola.

Retake > Arizona > Loyola $$$ > USD free.

For most people who want to work in CA, the bolded is probably the credited response.

I would also flip bchirco's ranking, (USD free >> Loyola $$$, USD $$$ > Loyola $$$) because you could presumably live at home and have ties to the city. I also just dislike the city of LA.

[762]

Arizona 2L here.

Do not count on getting in-state tuition, only a few people in the 2L class were able to successfully petition. Additionally any scholarship you have will be reduced by the same percentage that your tuition is reduced.

If you want to stay in CA, go to school in CA.

You will need a strong network/ties or extremely good grades to get into the flooded CA market.

[ashawnt]

Hey 762 it's nice to
Be talking to someone who's actually there. I was under the impression that the "Arizona guarantee" program ensures second and third year tuition at in state rate regardless of whether u are able to successfully petition? Also I read online that Arizona hosts off campus interviews with L.A firms as well as that some California firms do OCI's at Arizona...Also how difficult is it to secure paid summer positions at Arizona?

[Mick Haller]

If you want to stay in CA, go to school in CA.

You will need a strong network/ties or extremely good grades to get into the flooded CA market.

the number of Arizona and Arizona State JD's working in California is surprisingly low. it just doesn't happen very often.

your options don't seem that good. you need either USD/Loyola for free or close to free, or else T14/UCLA/USC.

[Mick Haller]

and yes, the California job market is the pits

[calicali]

I am (almost) in the exact same position as you.

Got in to UofA, Loyola w/ 22.5k, USD.

I started this thread asking a similar question, you may find it helpful:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=201025

The reality is, if you go to AZ, you're staying in AZ for the foreseeable future. Odds are, you are probably going to get a decent job out of law school if you go to AZ and arguably a better education (I am VERY impressed with AZ's recruitment and low enrollment #s). The decision comes down to whether it is more important to have job security or to stay local. At least, at the end of all this, that's how I figured it to be. I chose Loyola.

[762]

Hey 762 it's nice to
Be talking to someone who's actually there. I was under the impression that the "Arizona guarantee" program ensures second and third year tuition at in state rate regardless of whether u are able to successfully petition? Also I read online that Arizona hosts off campus interviews with L.A firms as well as that some California firms do OCI's at Arizona...Also how difficult is it to secure paid summer positions at Arizona?

Never heard of this Arizona guarantee program. If you can link me I can look into it.

The career services office does do a few career fairs across the country. Few people actually go to them, but some students have good results. Our OCI had interviews from Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, and Arizona. Most student's self select to stay in AZ. Students at the top of the class have had some success getting into big markets in the past, but it can be very hit or miss. Very few students choose to mass mail to those very large firms. There will be a few CA firms doing resume collects, but it is nothing like the OCI options at CA schools. I think most the people who end up in CA will have made their own luck to get there.

You will be pretty much guaranteed to find some form of 1L and 2L summer job. However, it may not be with a firm, paid, or be your first choice.

It is difficult to find a paid 1L position. You generally need to be at the very top of the class, and have done the leg work/networking/mailing on your own. However, federal work study positions can sometimes be available.

It is still difficult to find a paid 2L position, but it is easier than 1L. The closer to the top of the class the more likely you are to get in with a firm. There are offers received through OCI and personal networking/mailing. Even more federal work study positions are available for 2Ls.

FWIW my 1L grades were not at the top of the class and I had a paid 1L summer, leading to an offer for a paid 2L summer. Although I am still K-JD I offer useful pre-law school experience. Additionally, I network, study materials for my niche on my own, and work on career stuff more than any other law student I have met. Most people do not really do any serious networking on their own, and the lack of people applying to NLJ250 firms from the top of the class drives down the mean salary among students.

[topher44]

I just stumbled across this in state tuition guarantee as well. It's located on the admitted students page. It looks like it's new and comes with the stipulation that you somehow show that you plan on living and working in the state of Arizona post graduation, which it appears you do not plan on doing. Why is it that the top students from Arizona don't apply to NLJ250 firms? Is it because it's just not where there interest lies, or because those jobs really aren't available to Arizona grads for the most part? I'm not asking because this is necessarily my goal, I'm more so trying to get a feel for what the overall personality of the law school is.

[762]

I will have to look into that guarantee. I don't have access to that page, and have not heard of such a thing.

I absolutely plan on living and working in AZ, and so do many other out-of-state students who were not able to qualify for in-state tuition.

Many students do not want to work outside of Arizona. The few NLJ250 firms in-state are targeted, and market rate in PHX for those firms is approx. 115 rather than 160 so that alters numbers as well. A large portion of students also have no desire to work at a big firm or any firm at all. Some jobs would be available to top students if they tried, but it depends on the market. Some like CA are hard to crack because there are already so many schools and good students recruited in-state. Very few students "mass mail" at UA like people do at other schools.

It is a social laid back environment, students are intelligent (many turn down higher ranked schools and come if they want to practice in AZ or have scholarship), and the quality of education is very high. If you desire to practice in AZ out of school it should be your top choice outside of the T-14 unless ASU is cheaper by a good margin. I will graduate with less than 25k in debt, and I can't say I have any regrets.