Top Law Schools

Hello.
I was hoping someone with insight to the Florida legal market and the reputation of these schools could help me out. I have little interest in big law, I would love to do PI, but would take any good paying legal job. I want to practice in Florida (have ties, fluent in Spanish) and have little interest in going anywhere else, especially anywhere north. I was initially set on Miami because I have a preference for south Florida, but it seems like their employment statistics are on a downward trend.
COA for both schools will be very similar and quite low, around 20k a year. (Bigger scholarship from UM but higher COL in Miami)

Gracias.

Aroldis105 wrote:Hello.
I was hoping someone with insight to the Florida legal market and the reputation of these schools could help me out. I have little interest in big law, I would love to do PI, but would take any good paying legal job. I want to practice in Florida (have ties, fluent in Spanish) and have little interest in going anywhere else, especially anywhere north. I was initially set on Miami because I have a preference for south Florida, but it seems like their employment statistics are on a downward trend.
COA for both schools will be very similar and quite low, around 20k a year. (Bigger scholarship from UM but higher COL in Miami)

Gracias.

I'm having the same dilemma you are although it seems that UF doesn't have a very impressive employment rate either ...

#46: University of Florida (Levin) - LSAT (160-164) - GPA (3.33-3.73) - Employment Rate (64.80%)
vs.
#76: University of Miami - LSAT (155-159) - GPA (3.14-3.57) - Employment Rate (61.00%)

3.8% difference and neither employment stats blow me away... possibly there is a difference in quality of jobs?

meowllory wrote:

Aroldis105 wrote:Hello.
I was hoping someone with insight to the Florida legal market and the reputation of these schools could help me out. I have little interest in big law, I would love to do PI, but would take any good paying legal job. I want to practice in Florida (have ties, fluent in Spanish) and have little interest in going anywhere else, especially anywhere north. I was initially set on Miami because I have a preference for south Florida, but it seems like their employment statistics are on a downward trend.
COA for both schools will be very similar and quite low, around 20k a year. (Bigger scholarship from UM but higher COL in Miami)

Gracias.

I'm having the same dilemma you are although it seems that UF doesn't have a very impressive employment rate either ...

#46: University of Florida (Levin) - LSAT (160-164) - GPA (3.33-3.73) - Employment Rate (64.80%)
vs.
#76: University of Miami - LSAT (155-159) - GPA (3.14-3.57) - Employment Rate (61.00%)

3.8% difference and neither employment stats blow me away... possibly there is a difference in quality of jobs?

I know UF has better big firm placement (albeit not by much) and their degree seems to have more portability around the state. I know the difference seems small between the two numbers, but the LST report has them slightly farther apart, I believe UM games the numbers quite a bit.

Aroldis105 wrote:

meowllory wrote:

Aroldis105 wrote:Hello.
I was hoping someone with insight to the Florida legal market and the reputation of these schools could help me out. I have little interest in big law, I would love to do PI, but would take any good paying legal job. I want to practice in Florida (have ties, fluent in Spanish) and have little interest in going anywhere else, especially anywhere north. I was initially set on Miami because I have a preference for south Florida, but it seems like their employment statistics are on a downward trend.
COA for both schools will be very similar and quite low, around 20k a year. (Bigger scholarship from UM but higher COL in Miami)

Gracias.

I'm having the same dilemma you are although it seems that UF doesn't have a very impressive employment rate either ...

#46: University of Florida (Levin) - LSAT (160-164) - GPA (3.33-3.73) - Employment Rate (64.80%)
vs.
#76: University of Miami - LSAT (155-159) - GPA (3.14-3.57) - Employment Rate (61.00%)

3.8% difference and neither employment stats blow me away... possibly there is a difference in quality of jobs?

I know UF has better big firm placement (albeit not by much) and their degree seems to have more portability around the state. I know the difference seems small between the two numbers, but the LST report has them slightly farther apart, I believe UM games the numbers quite a bit.

Yeah I hear what you're saying.. I've analyzed and compared the LST data for both schools both before and after the new rankings were released but to me, they still seem pretty similar. I went to UF for undergrad and know quite a few people who have graduated from the law school (and are there currently) that have trouble finding jobs that 1) pay well or 2) are in the field they want (and that's if they can find any at all) so I have to questions UF's true portability as well.

I know Miami's not a top school but I was quite surprised in how far they dropped and even that UF rised.. made me rethink a lot but also wonder what exactly goes into the rankings

In the end, I just don't know if the extra $30,000 for me to go to UF is worth it added to the fact that I'm not sure I want to be stuck in Gainesville another 3 years.

meowllory wrote:Yeah I hear what you're saying.. I've analyzed and compared the LST data for both schools both before and after the new rankings were released but to me, they still seem pretty similar. I went to UF for undergrad and know quite a few people who have graduated from the law school (and are there currently) that have trouble finding jobs that 1) pay well or 2) are in the field they want (and that's if they can find any at all) so I have to questions UF's true portability as well.

I know Miami's not a top school but I was quite surprised in how far they dropped and even that UF rised.. made me rethink a lot but also wonder what exactly goes into the rankings

To be frank, I think you (hispanic?) are probably one of the few I'd recommend to attend UM. If the COA is equivalent, and you are from the area, I don't think it's a raw deal. Definitely talk to as many current students and recent graduates as you can before making your decision though. Being fluent in spanish will certainly be helpful if you're looking to work in Miami.

Just understand that there's a very real chance you could strike out and end up 60k in debt (plus the opportunity cost of lost full-time wages over three years). At most schools you don't have much more than coin flip odds at becoming a lawyer, but in a state like FL where a disproportionate number of entering 1Ls are on their parents' dime and are woefully ignorant of debt, risk and the real world, I think you do have an advantage.

I think UF is the better choice out of the 2 school but if COA is the same I would probably go with UM. I can't imagine living in Gainesville.

cahwc12 wrote:

meowllory wrote:Yeah I hear what you're saying.. I've analyzed and compared the LST data for both schools both before and after the new rankings were released but to me, they still seem pretty similar. I went to UF for undergrad and know quite a few people who have graduated from the law school (and are there currently) that have trouble finding jobs that 1) pay well or 2) are in the field they want (and that's if they can find any at all) so I have to questions UF's true portability as well.

I know Miami's not a top school but I was quite surprised in how far they dropped and even that UF rised.. made me rethink a lot but also wonder what exactly goes into the rankings

To be frank, I think you (hispanic?) are probably one of the few I'd recommend to attend UM. If the COA is equivalent, and you are from the area, I don't think it's a raw deal. Definitely talk to as many current students and recent graduates as you can before making your decision though. Being fluent in spanish will certainly be helpful if you're looking to work in Miami.

Just understand that there's a very real chance you could strike out and end up 60k in debt (plus the opportunity cost of lost full-time wages over three years). At most schools you don't have much more than coin flip odds at becoming a lawyer, but in a state like FL where a disproportionate number of entering 1Ls are on their parents' dime and are woefully ignorant of debt, risk and the real world, I think you do have an advantage.

lol thanks but 100% not hispanic.. horribly white actually. But I completely agree with you that Miami is risky. To be honest though, I feel like UF is too. A good handful of my friends are there now and I know they're struggling. I loved UF for undergrad but I'm still not convinced they can guarantee me more job prospects in the future.

Went to FSU for UG so ive got no horse in the race. Work for a law firm in Miami now. Pick UF of the two

meowllory wrote:In the end, I just don't know if the extra $30,000 for me to go to UF is worth it added to the fact that I'm not sure I want to be stuck in Gainesville another 3 years.

Do u mean 30k in tuition over 3 years? cuz i thought u said with COL it balances out.

What r ur stats? could u retake lsat and try for a better scholarship at UF?

untar614 wrote:

meowllory wrote:In the end, I just don't know if the extra $30,000 for me to go to UF is worth it added to the fact that I'm not sure I want to be stuck in Gainesville another 3 years.

Do u mean 30k in tuition over 3 years? cuz i thought u said with COL it balances out.

What r ur stats? could u retake lsat and try for a better scholarship at UF?

Not the OP so my situtation is a little different than his/hers.. For me it's ~30k extra for all 3 years total.

meowllory wrote:

untar614 wrote:

meowllory wrote:In the end, I just don't know if the extra $30,000 for me to go to UF is worth it added to the fact that I'm not sure I want to be stuck in Gainesville another 3 years.

Do u mean 30k in tuition over 3 years? cuz i thought u said with COL it balances out.

What r ur stats? could u retake lsat and try for a better scholarship at UF?

Not the OP so my situtation is a little different than his/hers.. For me it's ~30k extra for all 3 years total.

oh, whoops, didnt notice that. Yeah, that's tough, but same questions then

untar614 wrote:

meowllory wrote:

untar614 wrote:

meowllory wrote:In the end, I just don't know if the extra $30,000 for me to go to UF is worth it added to the fact that I'm not sure I want to be stuck in Gainesville another 3 years.

Do u mean 30k in tuition over 3 years? cuz i thought u said with COL it balances out.

What r ur stats? could u retake lsat and try for a better scholarship at UF?

Not the OP so my situtation is a little different than his/hers.. For me it's ~30k extra for all 3 years total.

oh, whoops, didnt notice that. Yeah, that's tough, but same questions then

I graduated May 2012 so I've already been working for a year. Fortunately for me, my situation's a little unique in that my grandfather recently passed away and left me $50,000 to put towards schooling. My parents are also willing to contribue ~$20,000 total so my debt at either school will total at most 45,000. I want to practice in Florida so there's really no incentive for me to take more time off from school working at a job I don't like when my overall debt isn't outrageous. I have personal reasons I'd like to go to Miami but am not completely overpowered by them if UF really puts me at an extreme advantage.

With the caveat of the COL balanced out - I'd say Miami. UF appears to have more weight in big law (which OP doesn't want) and might have more weight outside of Dade/Broward but UM has some fierce alumni/affinity groups. Add, that to Spanish speaking - I think UM wins.

meowllory wrote:

I graduated May 2012 so I've already been working for a year. Fortunately for me, my situation's a little unique in that my grandfather recently passed away and left me $50,000 to put towards schooling. My parents are also willing to contribue ~$20,000 total so my debt at either school will total at most 45,000. I want to practice in Florida so there's really no incentive for me to take more time off from school working at a job I don't like when my overall debt isn't outrageous. I have personal reasons I'd like to go to Miami but am not completely overpowered by them if UF really puts me at an extreme advantage.

ok, gotcha. yeah, that's a tough one. UF seems better, but its nothing too amazing. Does you family live in Miami? If so, do you have any shot at Vandy?

I've heard that UM has a tough stip on most of its scholarship offers. (I think it was something like top third?) If your offer doesn't have the same stip attached, then UM seems like a good fit otherwise I'd be a bit leery.

syd625 wrote:I've heard that UM has a tough stip on most of its scholarship offers. (I think it was something like top third?) If your offer doesn't have the same stip attached, then UM seems like a good fit otherwise I'd be a bit leery.

It has since been changed to top-half. That's not spectacular, but if you're not top-half at UM after L1 then you should probably drop out anyways.

Had a similar decision last cycle. UM undergrad but chose UF for law school. PM if you want.

Thank you to everyone for your prompt and thorough responses so far, keep them coming! Can anyone speak to the prestige of each school outside of Dade County. I figure that UM has a pretty good hold on Miami, but if two grads from each school with equal stats were competing for a job in Tampa, Tallahassee, Naples, Orlando, etc does the UF grad win essentially every time?
Also, does anyone attending either school have an idea on where in the class (top 30%, to 40%, etc) one has to be in order to get interviews for any sort of "decent" legal job? Are those on the PI route less handcuffed by their class rank?

Aroldis105 wrote:Thank you to everyone for your prompt and thorough responses so far, keep them coming! Can anyone speak to the prestige of each school outside of Dade County. I figure that UM has a pretty good hold on Miami, but if two grads from each school with equal stats were competing for a job in Tampa, Tallahassee, Naples, Orlando, etc does the UF grad win essentially every time?
Also, does anyone attending either school have an idea on where in the class (top 30%, to 40%, etc) one has to be in order to get interviews for any sort of "decent" legal job? Are those on the PI route less handcuffed by their class rank?

UF would win everywhere outside Miami. If you go to UM, it's going to be to work in Miami. If you don't want to work in Miami don't go there.

Class rank is something that isn't going to make much relative difference between UF and UM. That would matter more if you were debating UF/UM vs don't go (which you should also consider, by the way).

Also, why aren't you considering FSU for law school? If you want a job, and especially a PI job, that's the school to go to in FL.

Why no FSU? With all due respect to the south, I don't want to live in the south, and northern Florida shares way too many commonalities with the south for my liking. I'm concerned that although FSU would grant me some decent employment opportunities, many of them would be in the panhandle.

I really want to end up in Miami, but I'd be very content in Tampa, St Pete, West Palm, Naples, Sarasota, etc (anything sound of Orlando)

Aroldis105 wrote:Why no FSU? With all due respect to the south, I don't want to live in the south, and northern Florida shares way too many commonalities with the south for my liking. I'm concerned that although FSU would grant me some decent employment opportunities, many of them would be in the panhandle.

I really want to end up in Miami, but I'd be very content in Tampa, St Pete, West Palm, Naples, Sarasota, etc (anything sound of Orlando)

Are your ties specifically to south florida?

What are ur stats? any potential with a retake to get uva, duke or vandy?

untar614 wrote:

Aroldis105 wrote:Why no FSU? With all due respect to the south, I don't want to live in the south, and northern Florida shares way too many commonalities with the south for my liking. I'm concerned that although FSU would grant me some decent employment opportunities, many of them would be in the panhandle.

I really want to end up in Miami, but I'd be very content in Tampa, St Pete, West Palm, Naples, Sarasota, etc (anything sound of Orlando)

Are your ties specifically to south florida?

What are ur stats? any potential with a retake to get uva, duke or vandy?

South Florida ties. I could retake, I have a very strong GPA, but my concern is not returning to Florida. If I go to UVA, Duke, Vandy, could I be guaranteed the ability to return to Florida? I know those degrees have serious portability in the south, but if I don't want to practice anywhere outside of Florida (Arizona would be the exception) is it still the right decision? I also have a good offer from W&M, but from what I understand, there name is not strong enough to warrant me turning down UF/UM for essentially free.

Aroldis105 wrote:Why no FSU? With all due respect to the south, I don't want to live in the south, and northern Florida shares way too many commonalities with the south for my liking. I'm concerned that although FSU would grant me some decent employment opportunities, many of them would be in the panhandle.

I really want to end up in Miami, but I'd be very content in Tampa, St Pete, West Palm, Naples, Sarasota, etc (anything sound of Orlando)

This is a pretty naive reason to discount the best school in the state at making you a lawyer. FSU and UF outside their respective cities will place roughly equally (which is better than UM), but the difference is that within Tallahassee, there are numerous PI jobs and within Gainesville there is roughly diddly. That the law school is located about a 7 minute walk from the capitol is precisely why FSU's graduates place roughly 10% better than UF's.

And getting a law degree from FSU doesn't limit you to Tallahassee any more than UF does to Gainesville, but the difference is that within those geographical confines, FSU performs much better in its city than UF does. It's not like FSU places better in the panhandle, while UF places better in central Florida. Both of them place roughly equivalently across the state except in their immediate areas, which is mostly due to self-selection and least effort on the part of local employers.

You also seem a little delusional about your job opportunities. It's not like you're going to graduate and some boutique firm in Naples that doesn't exist will hire you. You need to approach this from the position of what school has the largest chance of getting you what you want.

If you really want to work in Miami, go to UM. If it's anywhere else in the state, either UF or FSU will be roughly equal, but FSU will give you a slightly better overall chance at becoming a lawyer. If you are that adamant about avoiding Tallahassee, and don't want to lock yourself into Miami, then go to UF. But understand that by attending UF, your chances of getting work in Miami probably drop precipitously, and your overall chances at becoming a lawyer would be less than at FSU.

I completely understand your point, and I understand how my position would come off as naive. I just think that I'm a lot less career oriented than most. If I got into NYU or UChicago, I'm not sure I'd even go. I don't care about big law and I really loathe living in the north, especially in Northern cities. I realize that the main goal of going to law school is finding work as a lawyer afterwards, but I'm not willing to throw all my other interests and passions out the window for just any job, anywhere. I guess I was slightly more vague in my OP than I should have been because I was hoping to get the most general opinions about the schools prestige in local hiring markets and how they compete against each other. To be honest, I want to live in Miami, work in Miami, and eventually be buried in Miami. I guess I'm going to UM.