Top Law Schools

guano wrote:I don't understand your numbers. I figure the first is scholarship, but what's the second? total tuition or total cost of attendance? (includes living expenses). Either way, the numbers don't make sense.

superhopefulwoo wrote:

guano wrote:I don't understand your numbers. I figure the first is scholarship, but what's the second? total tuition or total cost of attendance? (includes living expenses). Either way, the numbers don't make sense.

Scholarship amount vs. total tuition (not including cost of living) amount.

superhopefulwoo wrote:Of these offers, are any worthy enough for serious consideration? As a note, please assess with the assumption that I have enough ties to regions in the schools with scholarships except California. Also, I am capable of covering about 5k of my cost of living each year.

Format: X amount scholarship out of X amount tuition = Debt from tuition

American - (20k out of 210k) = 190k debt
Georgetown - (Preferred waitlist)
Fordham - (30k out of 175k) = 145k debt
Loyola LA - (60k/135k) = 175k debt
William & Mary - (57k/120k) = 63k debt
Seattle U - (60k/120k) = 60k debt
Villanova - Full Ride = no tuition debt
USD - (120k/129k) = 9k debt
Univ of Hawaii - (30k/90k) = 60k debt
UC Irvine - (135k/165k) = 30k debt
Temple - (60k/90k) = 30k debt
SCU - (61k/120k) = 59k debt
Penn State - (105k/120k) = 15k debt

I'm going to assume myself a lock out from T-14 other than GULC. I have read through enough threads to understand the risks of "below T-14". I also understand the option of 'retake' is the norm here - I am considering retaking in June for scholarship reasons and/or reapplying next cycle. As a note, I missed 1 LSAT because of an illness, 157 1st, 164 2nd. I'm not sure if that makes any difference. GPA ~3.65.

timbs4339 wrote:What do you want to do with your degree?

guano wrote:

superhopefulwoo wrote:

guano wrote:I don't understand your numbers. I figure the first is scholarship, but what's the second? total tuition or total cost of attendance? (includes living expenses). Either way, the numbers don't make sense.

Scholarship amount vs. total tuition (not including cost of living) amount.

I'm still not sure your numbers are right, but, you should absolutely include cost of living, unless you prefer to reside in a cardboard box.

guano wrote:

timbs4339 wrote:What do you want to do with your degree?

and where do you want to end up?

cooldude87 wrote:Villanova

superhopefulwoo wrote:

guano wrote:

timbs4339 wrote:What do you want to do with your degree?

and where do you want to end up?

I've moved all my life so I have no locational preference. If I like the area enough (which I do for each of these locations) then I have no problems continuing my career in that location. I have not decided an exact route - I am interested in both BigLaw and Public Interest although I'm leaning more toward Public Interest right now, and small debts are ideal. Overall I am flexible which actually makes this more confusing. Just add 45k to the total I listed and you will have the estimated debt. Sorry - I couldn't figure out how to set up those numbers.

timbs4339 wrote:

superhopefulwoo wrote:

guano wrote:

timbs4339 wrote:What do you want to do with your degree?

and where do you want to end up?

I've moved all my life so I have no locational preference. If I like the area enough (which I do for each of these locations) then I have no problems continuing my career in that location. I have not decided an exact route - I am interested in both BigLaw and Public Interest although I'm leaning more toward Public Interest right now, and small debts are ideal. Overall I am flexible which actually makes this more confusing. Just add 45k to the total I listed and you will have the estimated debt. Sorry - I couldn't figure out how to set up those numbers.

Biglaw is essentially out at the schools you listed except maybe Fordham. That's why a year off and a retake would be enormously beneficial. Six points and you'd be in at multiple T14s. Biglaw opens up a ton of options 2-3 years after graduation you might not otherwise have, and public interest is very hard to get now.

American, Fordham, and Loyola are out even before the COL. No fucking way. The remaining schools are mostly regional and you're looking at salaries in the 40-60K range if you are within the half that gets a lawyer job. Of course there is always a small chance you'll get an excellent outcome, but it is dwarfed by the chances you'll end up unemployed or working for $15/hr. So I'd recommend no more than 80K in debt.

Villanova, Penn State, USD, UCI would all be fine at those prices assuming 15K per year in COL+tuition increases. My top choice would be Nova. Once you add COL, W+M, Seattle, and SCU are not good buys. Hawaii's market is too insular and the school doesn't travel well. Temple is on the bubble, maybe you can get them to match Nova if you negotiate. Don't be afraid to place multiple deposits and negotiate down to the wire.

superhopefulwoo wrote:I also understand the option of 'retake' is the norm here - I am considering retaking in June for scholarship reasons and/or reapplying next cycle.

superhopefulwoo wrote:
Thank you - that was a really helpful assessment. I am currently in Hawaii so I am not worried about their insular market - I am very in, but the school is incredibly stingy so I can't go below in-state. I totally forgot to add one more school - UW at sticker for now (that's probably 120k in tuition + 45k in col). So if I were able to talk up Penn State and Temple to full, which would be the winner of the three? Is Villanova 'safe' in light of the ranking scandal?

InGoodFaith wrote:Worthless without knowing stips.

InGoodFaith wrote:Worthless choiceswithout knowing stips.

InGoodFaith wrote:Worthless without knowing stips.

guano wrote:

cooldude87 wrote:Villanova

guano wrote:

InGoodFaith wrote:Worthless choiceswithout knowing stips.

guano wrote:

InGoodFaith wrote:Worthless choiceswithout knowing stips.

InGoodFaith wrote:

guano wrote:

InGoodFaith wrote:Worthless choiceswithout knowing stips.

Meh, I've seen much worse on this site so I didn't really bat an eye.

Top half stip means 50% chance of losing your scholarship. That's a huge gamble. The unequivocal right answer (which OP obviously knows since it was acknowledged in the OP) is to retake.

superhopefulwoo wrote:

InGoodFaith wrote:

guano wrote:

InGoodFaith wrote:Worthless choiceswithout knowing stips.

Meh, I've seen much worse on this site so I didn't really bat an eye.

Top half stip means 50% chance of losing your scholarship. That's a huge gamble. The unequivocal right answer (which OP obviously knows since it was acknowledged in the OP) is to retake.

Oops - Villanova is 2.0 also. W&M and Penn State seem to have good stats with most scholarship recipients being able to renew the money. And sorry - I messed up Fordham's tuition - it was ~150k!