Fordham's and others Biglaw employment data----lame.... Forum

[Ramius]

Coming from a New Yorker, Fordham Law is prestigious. Maybe not on this forum because of the obsession with T14, but there are more than 14 law schools in the country. Schools such as Fordham, BC, ND, GW are elite schools just not the best of the best.

Maybe a few people are "obsessed with T14," but most are just obsessed with getting jobs. I'd hardly call a $275k investment into a 50% chance of a worthwhile job elite. I'm not even talking about jobs that pay off the debt, we're talking straight desirable employment.

I'd call those schools reputable and a much better investment than the TJSLs and Cooleys of the world, but does that make them a sound investment?

[jvincent11]

Coming from a New Yorker, Fordham Law is prestigious. Maybe not on this forum because of the obsession with T14, but there are more than 14 law schools in the country. Schools such as Fordham, BC, ND, GW are elite schools just not the best of the best.

Maybe a few people are "obsessed with T14," but most are just obsessed with getting jobs. I'd hardly call a $275k investment into a 50% chance of a worthwhile job elite. I'm not even talking about jobs that pay off the debt, we're talking straight desirable employment.

I'd call those schools reputable and a much better investment than the TJSLs and Cooleys of the world, but does that make them a sound investment?

Whether it's a sound investment has nothing to do with whether it's elite. In this market, the employment statistics at some elite schools just aren't as high people would like them to be. Elitism is based on relativity, not a set parameter.

I understand the major benefits of attending a T14, as I expect that is where I will end up (168 3.9+), but people on this forum treat schools in the 20-30s like they are complete garbage.

Do not compare Fordham to Cooley. Fordham is closer to Harvard than Cooley.

[20141023]

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[guano]

I would have made a thread like this only if I had been rejected by Fordam despite really wanting to go there. Just my 2 cents.

Which is the source of a surprisingly large amount of derp

[Ramius]

Coming from a New Yorker, Fordham Law is prestigious. Maybe not on this forum because of the obsession with T14, but there are more than 14 law schools in the country. Schools such as Fordham, BC, ND, GW are elite schools just not the best of the best.

Maybe a few people are "obsessed with T14," but most are just obsessed with getting jobs. I'd hardly call a $275k investment into a 50% chance of a worthwhile job elite. I'm not even talking about jobs that pay off the debt, we're talking straight desirable employment.

I'd call those schools reputable and a much better investment than the TJSLs and Cooleys of the world, but does that make them a sound investment?

Whether it's a sound investment has nothing to do with whether it's elite. In this market, the employment statistics at some elite schools just aren't as high people would like them to be. Elitism is based on relativity, not a set parameter.

I understand the major benefits of attending a T14, as I expect that is where I will end up (168 3.9+), but people on this forum treat schools in the 20-30s like they are complete garbage.

Do not compare Fordham to Cooley. Fordham is closer to Harvard than Cooley.

What is your definition of elite then? Big library? Top faculty? Nice campus?

These things might be a fringe benefit, but I'd rather go to law school in a cardboard box that gave me the best chance for employment over any of this. We can spend all day trying to define 'elite,' but for the sake of a professional school meant to get you a job in the field, why not just throw out the idea of relative elitism and look at it strictly as an investment in both time and money?

I wasn't trying to compare Fordham to Cooley at all (notice I referred to them as reputable prior to discussing Cooley?), and in reality I'm not saying Fordham is a bad choice if you're going with a substantial scholarship. I'm mostly calling out that taking the time to define what are and are not elite law schools is pointless. It's all about being a sound financial investment.

[jvincent11]

Coming from a New Yorker, Fordham Law is prestigious. Maybe not on this forum because of the obsession with T14, but there are more than 14 law schools in the country. Schools such as Fordham, BC, ND, GW are elite schools just not the best of the best.

Maybe a few people are "obsessed with T14," but most are just obsessed with getting jobs. I'd hardly call a $275k investment into a 50% chance of a worthwhile job elite. I'm not even talking about jobs that pay off the debt, we're talking straight desirable employment.

I'd call those schools reputable and a much better investment than the TJSLs and Cooleys of the world, but does that make them a sound investment?

Whether it's a sound investment has nothing to do with whether it's elite. In this market, the employment statistics at some elite schools just aren't as high people would like them to be. Elitism is based on relativity, not a set parameter.

I understand the major benefits of attending a T14, as I expect that is where I will end up (168 3.9+), but people on this forum treat schools in the 20-30s like they are complete garbage.

Do not compare Fordham to Cooley. Fordham is closer to Harvard than Cooley.

What is your definition of elite then? Big library? Top faculty? Nice campus?

These things might be a fringe benefit, but I'd rather go to law school in a cardboard box that gave me the best chance for employment over any of this. We can spend all day trying to define 'elite,' but for the sake of a professional school meant to get you a job in the field, why not just throw out the idea of relative elitism and look at it strictly as an investment in both time and money?

I wasn't trying to compare Fordham to Cooley at all (notice I referred to them as reputable prior to discussing Cooley?), and in reality I'm not saying Fordham is a bad choice if you're going with a substantial scholarship. I'm mostly calling out that taking the time to define what are and are not elite law schools is pointless. It's all about being a sound financial investment.

I agree with everything you said. My point was the bad market for lawyers the past few years that resulted in lower employment statistics for Fordham Law does not change the fact that it is an elite law school for those pursuing the NYC market. It's very possible that there are more Fordham Law Alum in NYC BigLaw than any other school

[romothesavior]

You've got a pretty broad definition of elite. I don't even think most of the students at Fordham would call it elite. Its a strong NYC regional school. Its not elite unless you stretch the word elite beyond its ordinary meaning.

And uhh... Columbia? NYU? You don't think they have more NYC alumni?

[law2015]

LOL at Fordham being elite. It is a decent school and thats it.

[Ramius]

I agree with everything you said. My point was the bad market for lawyers the past few years that resulted in lower employment statistics for Fordham Law does not change the fact that it is an elite law school for those pursuing the NYC market. It's very possible that there are more Fordham Law Alum in NYC BigLaw than any other school

It's cool, I like making broad, vague statements without backing them up too. It's also very possible that there are more Liberty fans than Knicks fans in NYC.

[rad lulz]

So.. What is the point of this thread? Are we praising them, or hating on them? Also a 25% chance is not that bad at big law compared to other schools.

Do I look like praising that school? And frankly, does those "praises" mean anything more statistics? Yea, sure, compared to toilet law schools, 25% chances aren't that bad. But compared to casinos....nahhhh

Their #s are what they are. It's nothing like going to a casino. And you don't NEED big law.

If you don't want to go to Fordham then don't. They are ranked accordingly with their job prospects for big law taken into account.

They aren't a t14, but hey, that's what t30 gets you.

If you take out the amount of debt you need to take out to attend Fordham (incredibly stingy), then ya, you're pretty much gonna need biglaw or something equivalent.

[09042014]

There are exactly three elite law schools.

The best of the rest are the t14. Fordham is a regional school. There is a reason 75 percent can't get a decent legal jerb from it.

[Ramius]

I hear they're the most elite law school on 60th St if that means anything.

[star fox]

Fordham and its peers qualify as reputable, strong regional schools. Definitely not "elite". What a broad use for that term. There's not a need for a gazillion lawyers so there's not 30 "elite law schools". They were doing really well but have really taken a hit post-recession. Considering these schools charge as much as T14s they are becoming increasingly bad investments. Sadly, for so many students these are their "dream/reach school" and they are just hoping that their decent gpa and alright LSAT will get them to the ability to pay sticker at places like this.

[lukertin]

Coming from a New Yorker, Fordham Law is prestigious. Maybe not on this forum because of the obsession with T14, but there are more than 14 law schools in the country. Schools such as Fordham, BC, ND, GW are elite schools just not the best of the best.

Then by the definition of elite, they are not elite.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Fordham is an elite school like Joe Flacco is an elite quarterback.

[froglee]

UCLA and Georgetown's biglaw job placements are pretty lame too. They are Top 14s

And Austin, a flagship regional law school, biglaw placement is like 16%. Hell, to me, there is no difference between 5% and 16%, both are big gambles.

[Bronck]

UCLA and Georgetown's biglaw job placements are pretty lame too. They are Top 14s

And Austin, a flagship regional law school, biglaw placement is like 16%. Hell, to me, there is no difference between 5% and 16%, both are big gambles.

UCLA is a T14? News to me

[pedestrian]

UCLA and Georgetown's biglaw job placements are pretty lame too. They are Top 14s

And Austin, a flagship regional law school, biglaw placement is like 16%. Hell, to me, there is no difference between 5% and 16%, both are big gambles.

Georgetown's poor employment prospects inspired the shift to "T13" in many corners of TLS. Then they had to go be annoying and bump up to 13.

UCLA was never T14.

[A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A]

UCLA and Georgetown's biglaw job placements are pretty lame too. They are Top 14s

And Austin, a flagship regional law school, biglaw placement is like 16%. Hell, to me, there is no difference between 5% and 16%, both are big gambles.

Georgetown's poor employment prospects inspired the shift to "T13" in many corners of TLS. Then they had to go be annoying and bump up to 13.

UCLA was never T14.

--ImageRemoved--

[pedestrian]

UCLA and Georgetown's biglaw job placements are pretty lame too. They are Top 14s

And Austin, a flagship regional law school, biglaw placement is like 16%. Hell, to me, there is no difference between 5% and 16%, both are big gambles.

Georgetown's poor employment prospects inspired the shift to "T13" in many corners of TLS. Then they had to go be annoying and bump up to 13.

UCLA was never T14.

--ImageRemoved--

I stand corrected.

Although I'm not sure that 1987 was a canonical year... I need a lawyer.

[09042014]

T14 isn't picked by USNEWS bros.

[A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A]

T14 isn't picked by USNEWS bros.

Don't they pick this every year?

[A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A]

Georgetown's poor employment prospects inspired the shift to "T13" in many corners of TLS. Then they had to go be annoying and bump up to 13.

UCLA was never T14.

--ImageRemoved--

I stand corrected.

Although I'm not sure that 1987 was a canonical year... I need a lawyer.

It looks like it was the first year and then they didn't release another ranking until 1990.

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=202743
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... ?f=1&t=213

[09042014]

T14 isn't picked by USNEWS bros.

Don't they pick this every year?

If they put ASU at number ten, it's still not T14. T14 is an internet thing and it's set in stone.

[A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A]

T14 isn't picked by USNEWS bros.

Don't they pick this every year?

If they put ASU at number ten, it's still not T14. T14 is an internet thing and it's set in stone.

Do you think that the internet is behind the consistent ranking of top 14 in USNWR?