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cahwc12 wrote:BruceWayne is a 3L at UVA who I think paid sticker and is generally regarded as a very knowledgeable poster here, so you might consider sending him a message if he doesn't see this thread.

antiochus3 wrote:I'm a 2L paying sticker at UVA (who does have a biglaw SA position). Given the bimodal distribution of law salaries, you essentially have two possible outcomes going to UVA at sticker. One, you fail to get biglaw or an LRAP-qualifying job, and your financial future is essentially destroyed. You will be forced to rely on IBR and probably be unable to qualify for credit (mortgage, car loan, etc.). If you are fortunate enough to get biglaw, then you face 3,000 per month in loan payments for the next ten years. Given the turnover rate in biglaw, you should probably try to pay your loans down faster than that, which puts you in the position of working 60-70 hours per week only to throw half your net income at loans. I think there are a couple threads on here that explore the financial implications of paying down sticker debt in biglaw in greater detail.

Of course in the long run someone who starts out in biglaw may have quite a desirable career, but I have to say that the path that UVA sets out for you at sticker is pretty daunting.

Justin Genious wrote:

antiochus3 wrote:I'm a 2L paying sticker at UVA (who does have a biglaw SA position). Given the bimodal distribution of law salaries, you essentially have two possible outcomes going to UVA at sticker. One, you fail to get biglaw or an LRAP-qualifying job, and your financial future is essentially destroyed. You will be forced to rely on IBR and probably be unable to qualify for credit (mortgage, car loan, etc.). If you are fortunate enough to get biglaw, then you face 3,000 per month in loan payments for the next ten years. Given the turnover rate in biglaw, you should probably try to pay your loans down faster than that, which puts you in the position of working 60-70 hours per week only to throw half your net income at loans. I think there are a couple threads on here that explore the financial implications of paying down sticker debt in biglaw in greater detail.

Of course in the long run someone who starts out in biglaw may have quite a desirable career, but I have to say that the path that UVA sets out for you at sticker is pretty daunting.

Nobody is going to be paying $3,000 in loans a month as a first-year associate. Having said that, lets use your "half of income to loans" scenario to determine the average take-home pay a biglaw associate.

This forum must be shut down. Somebody rational has intruded on it.

Single individual (2 allowances, 0 dependents), NYC V100 pay for biglaw associate: [net pay - (1/2 net pay/2)]
1st year:
Annual: $48k, Bi-weekly: $1845
2nd year:
Annual: $51k, Bi-weekly: $1960
3rd year:
Annual: $55k, Bi-weekly: $2135
4th year:
Annual: $61k, Bi-weekly: $2340
5th year:
Annual: $66k, Bi-weekly: $2525

Total amount paid to loans by year 5: $281,000

Consider my scenario:
I am currently working 60 hours a week and getting paid 40k and I am financially content. I am able to save about a third of each of my paychecks and have enough left for rent, food, fun, etc. Granted, I do have to budget, but it's not as if I'm barely making it paycheck to paycheck. COL would increase ~52% from my current location to Queens/Brooklyn, which would put me at needing $41k to maintain my current lifestyle.

Leaving that extra 7k from first-year salary as some nice cushion room, attending at sticker and getting biglaw - which is obviously not guaranteed but is statistically the most likely outcome at a t14 - would not be a terrible decision. Anywho, I'm not a UVA student nor am I answering any of your questions but take it for what it's worth. If it's your only offer and you don't want to retake/wait another year than take the opportunity if its worth it to you.

hunter.d wrote:

Justin Genious wrote:

antiochus3 wrote:I'm a 2L paying sticker at UVA (who does have a biglaw SA position). Given the bimodal distribution of law salaries, you essentially have two possible outcomes going to UVA at sticker. One, you fail to get biglaw or an LRAP-qualifying job, and your financial future is essentially destroyed. You will be forced to rely on IBR and probably be unable to qualify for credit (mortgage, car loan, etc.). If you are fortunate enough to get biglaw, then you face 3,000 per month in loan payments for the next ten years. Given the turnover rate in biglaw, you should probably try to pay your loans down faster than that, which puts you in the position of working 60-70 hours per week only to throw half your net income at loans. I think there are a couple threads on here that explore the financial implications of paying down sticker debt in biglaw in greater detail.

Of course in the long run someone who starts out in biglaw may have quite a desirable career, but I have to say that the path that UVA sets out for you at sticker is pretty daunting.

Nobody is going to be paying $3,000 in loans a month as a first-year associate. Having said that, lets use your "half of income to loans" scenario to determine the average take-home pay a biglaw associate.

This forum must be shut down. Somebody rational has intruded on it.

Single individual (2 allowances, 0 dependents), NYC V100 pay for biglaw associate: [net pay - (1/2 net pay/2)]
1st year:
Annual: $48k, Bi-weekly: $1845
2nd year:
Annual: $51k, Bi-weekly: $1960
3rd year:
Annual: $55k, Bi-weekly: $2135
4th year:
Annual: $61k, Bi-weekly: $2340
5th year:
Annual: $66k, Bi-weekly: $2525

Total amount paid to loans by year 5: $281,000

Consider my scenario:
I am currently working 60 hours a week and getting paid 40k and I am financially content. I am able to save about a third of each of my paychecks and have enough left for rent, food, fun, etc. Granted, I do have to budget, but it's not as if I'm barely making it paycheck to paycheck. COL would increase ~52% from my current location to Queens/Brooklyn, which would put me at needing $41k to maintain my current lifestyle.

Leaving that extra 7k from first-year salary as some nice cushion room, attending at sticker and getting biglaw - which is obviously not guaranteed but is statistically the most likely outcome at a t14 - would not be a terrible decision. Anywho, I'm not a UVA student nor am I answering any of your questions but take it for what it's worth. If it's your only offer and you don't want to retake/wait another year than take the opportunity if its worth it to you.

This forum needs to be shut down. Somebody rational has intruded on it.

hunter.d wrote:

Justin Genious wrote:

antiochus3 wrote:I'm a 2L paying sticker at UVA (who does have a biglaw SA position). Given the bimodal distribution of law salaries, you essentially have two possible outcomes going to UVA at sticker. One, you fail to get biglaw or an LRAP-qualifying job, and your financial future is essentially destroyed. You will be forced to rely on IBR and probably be unable to qualify for credit (mortgage, car loan, etc.). If you are fortunate enough to get biglaw, then you face 3,000 per month in loan payments for the next ten years. Given the turnover rate in biglaw, you should probably try to pay your loans down faster than that, which puts you in the position of working 60-70 hours per week only to throw half your net income at loans. I think there are a couple threads on here that explore the financial implications of paying down sticker debt in biglaw in greater detail.

Of course in the long run someone who starts out in biglaw may have quite a desirable career, but I have to say that the path that UVA sets out for you at sticker is pretty daunting.

Nobody is going to be paying $3,000 in loans a month as a first-year associate. Having said that, lets use your "half of income to loans" scenario to determine the average take-home pay a biglaw associate.

This forum must be shut down. Somebody rational has intruded on it.

Single individual (2 allowances, 0 dependents), NYC V100 pay for biglaw associate: [net pay - (1/2 net pay/2)]
1st year:
Annual: $48k, Bi-weekly: $1845
2nd year:
Annual: $51k, Bi-weekly: $1960
3rd year:
Annual: $55k, Bi-weekly: $2135
4th year:
Annual: $61k, Bi-weekly: $2340
5th year:
Annual: $66k, Bi-weekly: $2525

Total amount paid to loans by year 5: $281,000

Consider my scenario:
I am currently working 60 hours a week and getting paid 40k and I am financially content. I am able to save about a third of each of my paychecks and have enough left for rent, food, fun, etc. Granted, I do have to budget, but it's not as if I'm barely making it paycheck to paycheck. COL would increase ~52% from my current location to Queens/Brooklyn, which would put me at needing $41k to maintain my current lifestyle.

Leaving that extra 7k from first-year salary as some nice cushion room, attending at sticker and getting biglaw - which is obviously not guaranteed but is statistically the most likely outcome at a t14 - would not be a terrible decision. Anywho, I'm not a UVA student nor am I answering any of your questions but take it for what it's worth. If it's your only offer and you don't want to retake/wait another year than take the opportunity if its worth it to you.

This forum needs to be shut down. Somebody rational has intruded on it.

Justin Genious wrote:

antiochus3 wrote:I'm a 2L paying sticker at UVA (who does have a biglaw SA position). Given the bimodal distribution of law salaries, you essentially have two possible outcomes going to UVA at sticker. One, you fail to get biglaw or an LRAP-qualifying job, and your financial future is essentially destroyed. You will be forced to rely on IBR and probably be unable to qualify for credit (mortgage, car loan, etc.). If you are fortunate enough to get biglaw, then you face 3,000 per month in loan payments for the next ten years. Given the turnover rate in biglaw, you should probably try to pay your loans down faster than that, which puts you in the position of working 60-70 hours per week only to throw half your net income at loans. I think there are a couple threads on here that explore the financial implications of paying down sticker debt in biglaw in greater detail.

Of course in the long run someone who starts out in biglaw may have quite a desirable career, but I have to say that the path that UVA sets out for you at sticker is pretty daunting.

Nobody is going to be paying $3,000 in loans a month as a first-year associate. Having said that, lets use your "half of income to loans" scenario to determine the average take-home pay a biglaw associate.

Single individual (2 allowances, 0 dependents), NYC V100 pay for biglaw associate: [net pay - (1/2 net pay/2)]
1st year:
Annual: $48k, Bi-weekly: $1845
2nd year:
Annual: $51k, Bi-weekly: $1960
3rd year:
Annual: $55k, Bi-weekly: $2135
4th year:
Annual: $61k, Bi-weekly: $2340
5th year:
Annual: $66k, Bi-weekly: $2525

Total amount paid to loans by year 5: $281,000

Consider my scenario:
I am currently working 60 hours a week and getting paid 40k and I am financially content. I am able to save about a third of each of my paychecks and have enough left for rent, food, fun, etc. Granted, I do have to budget, but it's not as if I'm barely making it paycheck to paycheck. COL would increase ~52% from my current location to Queens/Brooklyn, which would put me at needing $41k to maintain my current lifestyle.

Leaving that extra 7k from first-year salary as some nice cushion room, attending at sticker and getting biglaw - which is obviously not guaranteed but is statistically the most likely outcome at a t14 - would not be a terrible decision. Anywho, I'm not a UVA student nor am I answering any of your questions but take it for what it's worth. If it's your only offer and you don't want to retake/wait another year than take the opportunity if its worth it to you.

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Lol.

whereskyle wrote:

Justin Genious wrote:

antiochus3 wrote:I'm a 2L paying sticker at UVA (who does have a biglaw SA position). Given the bimodal distribution of law salaries, you essentially have two possible outcomes going to UVA at sticker. One, you fail to get biglaw or an LRAP-qualifying job, and your financial future is essentially destroyed. You will be forced to rely on IBR and probably be unable to qualify for credit (mortgage, car loan, etc.). If you are fortunate enough to get biglaw, then you face 3,000 per month in loan payments for the next ten years. Given the turnover rate in biglaw, you should probably try to pay your loans down faster than that, which puts you in the position of working 60-70 hours per week only to throw half your net income at loans. I think there are a couple threads on here that explore the financial implications of paying down sticker debt in biglaw in greater detail.

Of course in the long run someone who starts out in biglaw may have quite a desirable career, but I have to say that the path that UVA sets out for you at sticker is pretty daunting.

Nobody is going to be paying $3,000 in loans a month as a first-year associate. Having said that, lets use your "half of income to loans" scenario to determine the average take-home pay a biglaw associate.

Single individual (2 allowances, 0 dependents), NYC V100 pay for biglaw associate: [net pay - (1/2 net pay/2)]
1st year:
Annual: $48k, Bi-weekly: $1845
2nd year:
Annual: $51k, Bi-weekly: $1960
3rd year:
Annual: $55k, Bi-weekly: $2135
4th year:
Annual: $61k, Bi-weekly: $2340
5th year:
Annual: $66k, Bi-weekly: $2525

Total amount paid to loans by year 5: $281,000

Consider my scenario:
I am currently working 60 hours a week and getting paid 40k and I am financially content. I am able to save about a third of each of my paychecks and have enough left for rent, food, fun, etc. Granted, I do have to budget, but it's not as if I'm barely making it paycheck to paycheck. COL would increase ~52% from my current location to Queens/Brooklyn, which would put me at needing $41k to maintain my current lifestyle.

Leaving that extra 7k from first-year salary as some nice cushion room, attending at sticker and getting biglaw - which is obviously not guaranteed but is statistically the most likely outcome at a t14 - would not be a terrible decision. Anywho, I'm not a UVA student nor am I answering any of your questions but take it for what it's worth. If it's your only offer and you don't want to retake/wait another year than take the opportunity if its worth it to you.

Thanks a mill for spelling out the above for me. I am confident that I can land a firm job by means of uva. Truth be told, however, I have one scenario that I know I want to play out, and it is not going straight to a firm out of 3L to do discovery every day late into the night for five years to pay down debt. I want to clerk for increasingly prestigious judges for two years or more. Then, I want to do appellate litigation. I'm a liberal arts intellectual, who likes reading greek and latin. I applied to law school, because I enjoy reading and applying the law (1yr of paralegal experience doing so). I'm not amped about dealing with pissed off clients. I want to be the guy upstairs, who makes the judges' erroneous decisions go away with my close reading and acerbic writing and arguing skills.

Firstly, is appellate litigation reserved only for those, who pay their dues for years at a firm, or is it something into which grads are molded via clerkships and their law schools?

Secondly, do I just need to hold out for another year/two to apply early or boost my LSAT? I'll be 24 yo next month. I don't want to diss uva. I threw them an app, because of my perception of their clerkship placement compared to penn, berkeley, columbia, and nyu. I know that uva alumni hold prestigious judgeships, two of whom my boss will be arguing before on Wednesday. Every law school, besides Yale, sends more than twice the number of grads into firms than into clerkships, so I don't think I should condemn uva for not sending more grads into clerkships. Do I need to hold out for chicago and up, or do you see me potentially walking this route at uva, if I keep my ducks in a row? I'm a goofy, gregarious guy, who likes to converse. I feel that the worst I can do is be too friendly, so I'm not worried about landing a job. I may, however, be too picky to borrow $200,000.00 in return for what I consider to be a soul-sucking position as a discovery attorney. As uva has posted no information regarding the number of grads who are doing appellate litigation or are on track to do so, I feel I need to know more, before I borrow the money.

Hey, thanks you all. These are serious issues to me, and I'm glad you ladies and gents are here.

whereskyle wrote:Thanks a mill for spelling out the above for me. I am confident that I can land a firm job by means of uva. Truth be told, however, I have one scenario that I know I want to play out, and it is not going straight to a firm out of 3L to do discovery every day late into the night for five years to pay down debt. I want to clerk for increasingly prestigious judges for two years or more. Then, I want to do appellate litigation. I'm a liberal arts intellectual, who likes reading greek and latin. I applied to law school, because I enjoy reading and applying the law (1yr of paralegal experience doing so). I'm not amped about dealing with pissed off clients. I want to be the guy upstairs, who makes the judges' erroneous decisions go away with my close reading and acerbic writing and arguing skills.

Firstly, is appellate litigation reserved only for those, who pay their dues for years at a firm, or is it something into which grads are molded via clerkships and their law schools?

Secondly, do I just need to hold out for another year/two to apply early or boost my LSAT? I'll be 24 yo next month. I don't want to diss uva. I threw them an app, because of my perception of their clerkship placement compared to penn, berkeley, columbia, and nyu. I know that uva alumni hold prestigious judgeships, two of whom my boss will be arguing before on Wednesday. Every law school, besides Yale, sends more than twice the number of grads into firms than into clerkships, so I don't think I should condemn uva for not sending more grads into clerkships. Do I need to hold out for chicago and up, or do you see me potentially walking this route at uva, if I keep my ducks in a row? I'm a goofy, gregarious guy, who likes to converse. I feel that the worst I can do is be too friendly, so I'm not worried about landing a job. I may, however, be too picky to borrow $200,000.00 in return for what I consider to be a soul-sucking position as a discovery attorney. As uva has posted no information regarding the number of grads who are doing appellate litigation or are on track to do so, I feel I need to know more, before I borrow the money.

Hey, thanks you all. These are serious issues to me, and I'm glad you ladies and gents are here.

whereskyle wrote: Secondly, do I just need to hold out for another year/two to apply early or boost my LSAT? I'll be 24 yo next month.

Tiago Splitter wrote:

whereskyle wrote: Secondly, do I just need to hold out for another year/two to apply early or boost my LSAT? I'll be 24 yo next month.

Normally I'd say retake without a second thought, but if you already have a 170 and would be paying sticker at UVA I assume your GPA is pretty low. Is that correct? If so you aren't going to get into HYS even with a 180 and would probably have to pay close to sticker at any school that provides some chance for your desired career path.

JamesDean1955 wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... study.html

NYstate wrote:

hunter.d wrote:

Justin Genious wrote:

antiochus3 wrote:I'm a 2L paying sticker at UVA (who does have a biglaw SA position). Given the bimodal distribution of law salaries, you essentially have two possible outcomes going to UVA at sticker. One, you fail to get biglaw or an LRAP-qualifying job, and your financial future is essentially destroyed. You will be forced to rely on IBR and probably be unable to qualify for credit (mortgage, car loan, etc.). If you are fortunate enough to get biglaw, then you face 3,000 per month in loan payments for the next ten years. Given the turnover rate in biglaw, you should probably try to pay your loans down faster than that, which puts you in the position of working 60-70 hours per week only to throw half your net income at loans. I think there are a couple threads on here that explore the financial implications of paying down sticker debt in biglaw in greater detail.

Of course in the long run someone who starts out in biglaw may have quite a desirable career, but I have to say that the path that UVA sets out for you at sticker is pretty daunting.

Nobody is going to be paying $3,000 in loans a month as a first-year associate. Having said that, lets use your "half of income to loans" scenario to determine the average take-home pay a biglaw associate.

This forum must be shut down. Somebody rational has intruded on it.

Single individual (2 allowances, 0 dependents), NYC V100 pay for biglaw associate: [net pay - (1/2 net pay/2)]
1st year:
Annual: $48k, Bi-weekly: $1845
2nd year:
Annual: $51k, Bi-weekly: $1960
3rd year:
Annual: $55k, Bi-weekly: $2135
4th year:
Annual: $61k, Bi-weekly: $2340
5th year:
Annual: $66k, Bi-weekly: $2525

Total amount paid to loans by year 5: $281,000

Consider my scenario:
I am currently working 60 hours a week and getting paid 40k and I am financially content. I am able to save about a third of each of my paychecks and have enough left for rent, food, fun, etc. Granted, I do have to budget, but it's not as if I'm barely making it paycheck to paycheck. COL would increase ~52% from my current location to Queens/Brooklyn, which would put me at needing $41k to maintain my current lifestyle.

Leaving that extra 7k from first-year salary as some nice cushion room, attending at sticker and getting biglaw - which is obviously not guaranteed but is statistically the most likely outcome at a t14 - would not be a terrible decision. Anywho, I'm not a UVA student nor am I answering any of your questions but take it for what it's worth. If it's your only offer and you don't want to retake/wait another year than take the opportunity if its worth it to you.

This forum needs to be shut down. Somebody rational has intruded on it.

I find it interesting that the person who has taken on the debt and gone through OCI says it is a bad idea while a person who hasn't been to law school yet much less OCI uses stats to explain why that opinion is incorrect.

whereskyle wrote: Thanks a mill for spelling out the above for me. I am confident that I can land a firm job by means of uva. Truth be told, however, I have one scenario that I know I want to play out, and it is not going straight to a firm out of 3L to do discovery every day late into the night for five years to pay down debt. I want to clerk for increasingly prestigious judges for two years or more. Then, I want to do appellate litigation. I'm a liberal arts intellectual, who likes reading greek and latin. I applied to law school, because I enjoy reading and applying the law (1yr of paralegal experience doing so). I'm not amped about dealing with pissed off clients. I want to be the guy upstairs, who makes the judges' erroneous decisions go away with my close reading and acerbic writing and arguing skills.

Firstly, is appellate litigation reserved only for those, who pay their dues for years at a firm, or is it something into which grads are molded via clerkships and their law schools?

Secondly, do I just need to hold out for another year/two to apply early or boost my LSAT? I'll be 24 yo next month. I don't want to diss uva. I threw them an app, because of my perception of their clerkship placement compared to penn, berkeley, columbia, and nyu. I know that uva alumni hold prestigious judgeships, two of whom my boss will be arguing before on Wednesday. Every law school, besides Yale, sends more than twice the number of grads into firms than into clerkships, so I don't think I should condemn uva for not sending more grads into clerkships. Do I need to hold out for chicago and up, or do you see me potentially walking this route at uva, if I keep my ducks in a row? I'm a goofy, gregarious guy, who likes to converse. I feel that the worst I can do is be too friendly, so I'm not worried about landing a job. I may, however, be too picky to borrow $200,000.00 in return for what I consider to be a soul-sucking position as a discovery attorney. As uva has posted no information regarding the number of grads who are doing appellate litigation or are on track to do so, I feel I need to know more, before I borrow the money.

Hey, thanks you all. These are serious issues to me, and I'm glad you ladies and gents are here.

whereskyle wrote:Thanks a lot for these quality responses, you all. They are helping me to develop more realistic expectations. Also, I may be right to see that even if I hold out for hys, the logistics of specializing in appeals require more than a school name. They require reputation building in the trenches.

uvabro wrote:there's no link between the 2 class rank wise. you can argue paying sticker keeps u from getting overconfident. sticker creates more stress because even if you get good grades, if you don't get a job at oci you find yourself pondering the pros and cons of starting a massive cocaine cartel to pay back your debt.