Emory/Arizona State/GW/UGA/UNC - PhD in Bio, IP Law Forum

[eljefe_dy]

Interested in IP Law. I have a Bio PhD.
Ideally, would like to work big-law in a major secondary market (QoL reasons). Personally prefer warmer climates (e.g. GA, TX, AZ) but I'm not opposed to living in Chicago/Boston. I'm Canadian - no ties to any of the regions other than cousins/relatives living there.

Looking to attend one of the above listed schools. Most are offering $$ and I will most likely be paying <$20K/yr in tuition.

[eljefe_dy]

FYI. My other options are UIUC, U Indiana Bloomington, and BC/BU.

[Aberzombie1892]

What is the total cost of attendance at each?

[Dmini7]

Anything but ASU. I personally vote for Emory or UGA depending on CoA.

Ehh I should also include GWU since they are suppose to have an awesome IP program.

[eljefe_dy]

What is the total cost of attendance at each?

Comparable at all schools (60K +/- 15%) except for GW (80K). Higher cost of living because I have a wife and a daughter (need a 2-3br place). Self-funding with savings.

[stratocophic]

You'll be in demand for prosecution at the very least, and probably lit too. If there isn't a large COA difference between Emory/GW and UGA/UNC, I'd probably take Emory/GW, but your job prospects are probably going to be good enough that you probably don't need to be super concerned about the differences, which are pretty small in this economy.

If I was you, I'd shoot for the school that places best in the secondary market that fits the most of these criteria: (a) contains your best ties (your family or your significant other's is your best bet); (b) has a sizeable IP presence (e.g. at least 4 firms that are known for IP have offices with strong IP practices in Atlanta, wherease Phoenix has zero, so probably don't go to Phoenix); (c) has the most firms that pay 160 or close to that, balanced against cost of living (bear in mind that some firms pay IP associates differently than ordinary associates, so do your research); (d) matches lifestyle desires (climate, activities nearby, etc.); (e) where you have connections at firms in the city; (f) has a cost of attendance notably lower than your other choices (though this is less important, as you're far more likely to get a market-paying job than the average PoliSci major at these schools; (g) is not very insular and hard to crack for people without ties (e.g. St. Louis and Atlanta).

I'd counsel against UIUC b/c Chicago's market is in bad shape, and against Phoenix and UIB because neither Indianapolis nor Phoenix has an IP presence worth speaking of. Boston has a strong IP market, Atlanta's is good but not extraordinary, DC's is probably about as good as you'll find, Charlotte's is decent b/c of the Research Triangle and such nearby.

If you remember NOTHING else from this site, remember this once you get to 1L - apply to the Loyola Patent Fair in February/March and get thee to Chicago at the end of July.



Edit for future 0Ls - he'll be in demand because he's got a PhD. If your bio degree is a master's or especially just a bachelor's, firms aren't going to be clamoring for you to come work for them. You'll probably need to kill it in law school to get looked at.

[Crowing]

Anything but ASU. I personally vote for Emory or UGA depending on CoA.

Ehh I should also include GWU since they are suppose to have an awesome IP program.

Lol ASU isn't actually a total shithole they just get a lot of (justified) crap for falsely reporting 99% employment. But it's not really worse overall than the other schools on the list.

[stratocophic]

Anything but ASU. I personally vote for Emory or UGA depending on CoA.

Ehh I should also include GWU since they are suppose to have an awesome IP program.

Lol ASU isn't actually a total shithole they just get a lot of (justified) crap for falsely reporting 99% employment. But it's not really worse overall than the other schools on the list.

It is for IP because of the market it's in. Unless he kills it and winds up with grades good enough to hang with USC/UCLA/Berkeley grads trying to break into San Diego, job prospects are going to be limited (this is based on what I was told/extrapolated about the Phoenix market after talking to the head of the best (and really only) IP group in the city).

[eljefe_dy]

Thanks for your insights. Just a quick Q regarding regional markets - besides the Research Triangle and Atlanta, which other secondary markets would have significant big-law IP opportunities in the South? Would Houston or Dallas market have comparable opportunities as Atlanta?

Anything but ASU. I personally vote for Emory or UGA depending on CoA.

Ehh I should also include GWU since they are suppose to have an awesome IP program.

Lol ASU isn't actually a total shithole they just get a lot of (justified) crap for falsely reporting 99% employment. But it's not really worse overall than the other schools on the list.

It is for IP because of the market it's in. Unless he kills it and winds up with grades good enough to hang with USC/UCLA/Berkeley grads trying to break into San Diego, job prospects are going to be limited (this is based on what I was told/extrapolated about the Phoenix market after talking to the head of the best (and really only) IP group in the city).

I too heard that GW is known for their IP program, but I wonder if the extra COA and the long commutes will be worth it Vs. UGA or Emory.

[Bulls1990]

I dont know a lot about IP law at Emory. I know the CDC is on campus if that would interest you at all with your PhD in Bio. It may have nothing to do with your interests, career or degree but I thought it would be worth noting for whatever reason.

I went to UG in Atlanta and loved it, PM me if you have any questions about it! Good luck with everything.

[eljefe_dy]

I notice the CDC building on my last visit to ATL. I would be more interested in Emory's tech transfer office for relevant L1 summer experience, though. Emory is pretty strong on life sciences research, so I'd be very interested in checking out their tech transfer office. Beautiful campus, btw. Loved the neighbourhood.

I dont know a lot about IP law at Emory. I know the CDC is on campus if that would interest you at all with your PhD in Bio. It may have nothing to do with your interests, career or degree but I thought it would be worth noting for whatever reason.

I went to UG in Atlanta and loved it, PM me if you have any questions about it! Good luck with everything.

[stratocophic]

Overall, best advice I can give on figuring out what a city's IP market is like is to look at the NALP directory and sort by city and then the IP practice category to see how many firms actually have an IP group and how big those practices are (for a dramatic starter, compare Phoenix, which will probably show like 8 firms that mostly have around 5 attorneys per IP group, with DC or Boston, which will have several pages of firms that have 20+ per group). Bear in mid that if a small market is showing more IP attorneys than you'd expect, it's probably because they aren't "real" IP attorneys - they're lit or corporate guys who happen to handle some of the IP work for the firm rather than being dedicated to that topic. That seems to happen a lot with partner classifications.

From what I can recall, both Houston and Dallas have fairly sizable IP markets (not nearly as good as DC, probably as good at Atlanta if not better but I couldn't say for sure) that are concentrated in the big firms (Baker Botts, V&E, HayBoo, Locke Lord etc).

In terms of other cities in the south... Ain't much. About as close to literally nothing in Florida as is possible for a state that big, Nashville has 2 or 3 very small groups in midlaw firms, Birmingham is maybe a hair better than Nashville, and as for the rest of SEC country's IP prospects, nada.

[yeast master]

Thanks for your insights. Just a quick Q regarding regional markets - besides the Research Triangle and Atlanta, which other secondary markets would have significant big-law IP opportunities in the South? Would Houston or Dallas market have comparable opportunities as Atlanta?

I'm a 3L bio PhD. Like you, I wanted a job in a secondary market for quality of life considerations. I targeted Texas pretty heavily. There isn't a ton of biotech work in Texas, but there is enough that bio PhD's are in demand. I had 2L summer offers from two firms in Houston and one firm in Austin. I'm going to work for the Austin firm after graduation. I didn't apply to many firms in Dallas because I didn't find many that did biotech work.

As far as law school choice, I would (and did) make my decision based mostly on cost of attendance. However, since you don't have strong ties to any of the markets you're targeting, you might be best off choosing a school in a region where you want to work--that way, you show at least some sort of commitment to/interest in the area. I think you'll have better access to the Atlanta market if you go to Emory or UGA than if you go to ASU, for example. Of the options you list I think ASU is the weakest choice since it doesn't put you in a region that has a lot of IP jobs. The other ones would be fine. I think I might favor UNC over the GA schools because I think there's more biotech work in RTP than in Atlanta.

BTW, I second stratocophic's suggestion that you not miss the Loyola Patent Fair.

[eljefe_dy]

Thanks Yeast and Strato.
As I understand, there are two large IP job fairs (Chicago and Atlanta) and from what I've read on this board, they will be more useful than OCI.

ASU was an attractive option for me because I can take the Arizona bar before graduating and the school has a program that enables me to easily practice in Canada after I graduate as a backup option. However, despite the large size of the city, Arizona does not seem to have the kind of life sciences IP work.

I'm leaning mostly towards UGA/Emory. When I last visited Atlanta, I got stuck in the elevator of the hotel I was staying, and they gave me a big gift "I LOVE ATL" gift basket. Maybe it's a sign.

Thanks for your insights. Just a quick Q regarding regional markets - besides the Research Triangle and Atlanta, which other secondary markets would have significant big-law IP opportunities in the South? Would Houston or Dallas market have comparable opportunities as Atlanta?

I'm a 3L bio PhD. Like you, I wanted a job in a secondary market for quality of life considerations. I targeted Texas pretty heavily. There isn't a ton of biotech work in Texas, but there is enough that bio PhD's are in demand. I had 2L summer offers from two firms in Houston and one firm in Austin. I'm going to work for the Austin firm after graduation. I didn't apply to many firms in Dallas because I didn't find many that did biotech work.

As far as law school choice, I would (and did) make my decision based mostly on cost of attendance. However, since you don't have strong ties to any of the markets you're targeting, you might be best off choosing a school in a region where you want to work--that way, you show at least some sort of commitment to/interest in the area. I think you'll have better access to the Atlanta market if you go to Emory or UGA than if you go to ASU, for example. Of the options you list I think ASU is the weakest choice since it doesn't put you in a region that has a lot of IP jobs. The other ones would be fine. I think I might favor UNC over the GA schools because I think there's more biotech work in RTP than in Atlanta.

BTW, I second stratocophic's suggestion that you not miss the Loyola Patent Fair.

[bulinus]

Interested in IP Law. I have a Bio PhD.
Ideally, would like to work big-law in a major secondary market (QoL reasons). Personally prefer warmer climates (e.g. GA, TX, AZ) but I'm not opposed to living in Chicago/Boston. I'm Canadian - no ties to any of the regions other than cousins/relatives living there.

Looking to attend one of the above listed schools. Most are offering $$ and I will most likely be paying <$20K/yr in tuition.

In in the same situation with Bio Phd. I'm in at Emory and UGA, but I took a close look at UGA's upper level offerings, and they seemed light on IP stuff, which is unfortunate, as I'd love to go to Athens.

[Ned Racine]

Interested in IP Law. I have a Bio PhD.
Ideally, would like to work big-law in a major secondary market (QoL reasons). Personally prefer warmer climates (e.g. GA, TX, AZ) but I'm not opposed to living in Chicago/Boston. I'm Canadian - no ties to any of the regions other than cousins/relatives living there.

Looking to attend one of the above listed schools. Most are offering $$ and I will most likely be paying <$20K/yr in tuition.

In in the same situation with Bio Phd. I'm in at Emory and UGA, but I took a close look at UGA's upper level offerings, and they seemed light on IP stuff, which is unfortunate, as I'd love to go to Athens.

I've heard that a lack of IP courses is not really a big deal. Can anyone offer any opinion here?

UGA has the basic courses at least, plus an IP journal and society. I'm in the same boat and somewhat concerned about UGA's dearth of IP courses (see below).

• Copyright Law
  Patent Law
  Intellectual Property Survey
  Entertainment Law
  Media Law

[splittinghairs]

Interested in IP Law. I have a Bio PhD.
Ideally, would like to work big-law in a major secondary market (QoL reasons). Personally prefer warmer climates (e.g. GA, TX, AZ) but I'm not opposed to living in Chicago/Boston. I'm Canadian - no ties to any of the regions other than cousins/relatives living there.

Looking to attend one of the above listed schools. Most are offering $$ and I will most likely be paying <$20K/yr in tuition.

In in the same situation with Bio Phd. I'm in at Emory and UGA, but I took a close look at UGA's upper level offerings, and they seemed light on IP stuff, which is unfortunate, as I'd love to go to Athens.

I've heard that a lack of IP courses is not really a big deal. Can anyone offer any opinion here?

UGA has the basic courses at least, plus an IP journal and society. I'm in the same boat and somewhat concerned about UGA's dearth of IP courses (see below).

• Copyright Law
  Patent Law
  Intellectual Property Survey
  Entertainment Law
  Media Law

IP classes have basically no bearing on landing a 2L SA at an IP firm.

OCI screening interviews happen right after your 1L year, so no has had the chance to take any elective classes like IP. Furthermore, when employers interview they dont care what classes you take. Its basically 1L grades, Law Review. Moot court and Mock Trial matter very little for IP.

Specialty rankings don't matter at all. If anything the best way to maximize chances at IP is to go to a school that feeds well into a legal market with IP firms in proportion with how many students may even qualify for the patent bar exam in that area.

If you go to a school with very few patent eligible students, then your patent eligibility makes you stand out.

OP: Bio PhD makes you eligible for patent bar but its not as big of a boost as ppl with CS or EE degrees, but its still a very valuable advantage to finding a SA.

[Ned Racine]

I've heard that a lack of IP courses is not really a big deal. Can anyone offer any opinion here?

UGA has the basic courses at least, plus an IP journal and society. I'm in the same boat and somewhat concerned about UGA's dearth of IP courses (see below).

• Copyright Law
  Patent Law
  Intellectual Property Survey
  Entertainment Law
  Media Law

IP classes have basically no bearing on landing a 2L SA at an IP firm.

OCI screening interviews happen right after your 1L year, so no has had the chance to take any elective classes like IP. Furthermore, when employers interview they dont care what classes you take. Its basically 1L grades, Law Review. Moot court and Mock Trial matter very little for IP.

Specialty rankings don't matter at all. If anything the best way to maximize chances at IP is to go to a school that feeds well into a legal market with IP firms in proportion with how many students may even qualify for the patent bar exam in that area.

If you go to a school with very few patent eligible students, then your patent eligibility makes you stand out.

OP: Bio PhD makes you eligible for patent bar but its not as big of a boost as ppl with CS or EE degrees, but its still a very valuable advantage to finding a SA.

Makes perfect sense and exactly what I wanted to hear. Thanks!

[bigredforlaw]

I notice the CDC building on my last visit to ATL. I would be more interested in Emory's tech transfer office for relevant L1 summer experience, though. Emory is pretty strong on life sciences research, so I'd be very interested in checking out their tech transfer office. Beautiful campus, btw. Loved the neighbourhood.

Emory offers field placements at the Emory tech transfer office and the CDC tech transfer office. There's also a patent position at the Coca-Cola field placement. The university itself is really strong on life sciences and that's mostly what the Emory Patent Group deals with. If you're interested in patent prosecution you should definitely check out the TI:GER program. Also, the IP Society is very active. Emory aside, I'm surprised you didn't mention Georgia State. GSU has a very good IP program too. I'd say Emory and GSU have the greatest presence in Atlanta IP groups/boutiques. GW and Indiana also have great IP programs, but as someone else mentioned, your background will not stand out as much. Also cost of living in DC is WAY higher than in Atlanta.

[Agent]

Just a warning: I know two PhDs (one bio, the other chem) who came up empty after multiple interviews (SIPJF, PLIP, and OCI) and individual mailing. And they were doing reasonably well at reputable schools (one on Law Review). In the Southeast. Nice, personable folks who also had years of solid industry experience. Watch that wallet.

[treeey86]

Emory or GW should really be the only options being considered.

Emory - In Atlanta, great opportunity to network and get internship experiences with the IP firms (lots of boutiques in the city). Athens is a college town with no legal market to speak of. Your family would enjoy the amenities of Atlanta more. Atlanta is more of a city to raise a family than Athens.

GW- Huge IP market in DC. Lots of internship opportunities and network opportunities. COL is high though.


Patent bar-eligible IP track lawyers do amazing out of Emory.

[dood]

i cant speak as to other schools, but at GW, even in the worst of the recession 2 years ago, your phd + above median grades would get you at least 20+ interviews with the firms of your picking at OCI and 20+ more at loyola patent fair. unless u get terrible grades or totally lack any interpersonal skills whatsoever, u are guaranteed a job in whatever market you want, with whatever firm you want.

[dood]

If you remember NOTHING else from this site, remember this once you get to 1L - apply to the Loyola Patent Fair in February/March and get thee to Chicago at the end of July.

right here. remember this.

[Ned Racine]

i cant speak as to other schools, but at GW, even in the worst of the recession 2 years ago, your phd + above median grades would get you at least 20+ interviews with the firms of your picking at OCI and 20+ more at loyola patent fair. unless u get terrible grades or totally lack any interpersonal skills whatsoever, u are guaranteed a job in whatever market you want, with whatever firm you want.

How much worse would he do at UGA?

[Agent]

We probably have different views of what's "amazing." IMO, Emory is way too expensive.

Yes, the Tiger program and ease of networking within Atlanta are nice, but they are not worth Emory's COA vs. other schools—especially for aspiring patent attorneys who could work in a cheaper school's tech transfer office and shoot for interviews at SIPJF and PLIP. I generally think aspiring patent attorneys targeting the Southeast are better off at GSU, UGA, UA, UNC, UF, etc.

PM me if you want to chat more about this.

Patent bar-eligible IP track lawyers do amazing out of Emory.