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New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:09 pm
by Vpassarelli
I am a New York resident that would like to remain in NY after law school. In the region, I've been accepted to Hofstra and St. John's (waiting to hear from Cornell) and yesterday got into Minnesota.
Since it is ranked so much higher, would attending Minnesota give me better options in NY after graduation? Not necessarily in "BigLaw" but the market in general?
Or, in this case, is it better to attend a NY school even if the ranking isn't as high?
Any help appreciated! Thanks.
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:56 pm
by empyreanrrv
It looks like Minnesota "can" get you back to New York, but I think the general rule of thumb is to always choose a school in the region you plan to practice. What are the stipulations on your scholarships at Hofstra and St. John's? What would be the total CoA for your three schools? What are your numbers?
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:04 pm
by Vpassarelli
Hofstra: 40k/year St. Johns: 35k/year both have top 40% stips. I would stay where I am and commute to both of those schools.
I think I'll get money from Minnesota, but I just got in yesterday and my admissions packet with that info didnt come yet, but they're estimating around $61,000 COA.
I am a 167/2.6 with 5 Years WE and a Masters with a 3.97. I am not going to re-take and when it comes to NY I want corporate law (which I know is hard to get), but would be satisfied as an ADA in Manhattan or something to that effect. Also got into Maryland and was WaitListed at Notre Dame and Brooklyn.
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:13 pm
by romothesavior
As before, the answer is retake.
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:58 pm
by empyreanrrv
Neither of the two New York schools are good, but you have a large scholarship and if you are prepared to drop out, the only thing you'll lose is time. St. Johns seems to place a little bit better than Hofstra-- if you aren't going to retake the LSAT you might as well go to St. John's and drop out after the first year if you aren't in the top 5%, cause biglaw isn't happening. If you are going to pull the trigger, at least be prepared to pull the plug too.
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:46 pm
by star fox
Are you able to sit out a cycle and shoot for a higher LSAT?
Trying to crack NY in a non-T14 non-New York school or anything below Fordham within the area is going to be major challenge.
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:27 pm
by somewhatwayward
Vpassarelli wrote:I am not going to re-take and when it comes to NY I want corporate law (which I know is hard to get), but would be satisfied as an ADA in Manhattan or something to that effect. Also got into Maryland and was WaitListed at Notre Dame and Brooklyn.
Manhattan DA's office is as competitive as big law. The other boroughs' DA's offices are not far behind. This is not a backup option, especially since there have been lots of cuts recently. I see a lot of 'oh I wil be satisfied with an 80K/year mid-law job' or 'oh i will be satisfied with an ADA position.' These statements demonstrate extreme ignorance of the legal hiring market. If you can say to yourself 'oh I will be satisifed with 40K/year in insurance defense or a non-law job' then you show that you understand a bad, but unfortunately likely, outcome from the schools you are considering.
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:31 pm
by Paul Campos
somewhatwayward wrote:Vpassarelli wrote:I am not going to re-take and when it comes to NY I want corporate law (which I know is hard to get), but would be satisfied as an ADA in Manhattan or something to that effect. Also got into Maryland and was WaitListed at Notre Dame and Brooklyn.
Manhattan DA's office is as competitive as big law. The other boroughs' DA's offices are not far behind. This is not a backup option, especially since there have been lots of cuts recently. I see a lot of 'oh I wil be satisfied with an 80K/year mid-law job' or 'oh i will be satisfied with an ADA position.' These statements demonstrate extreme ignorance of the legal hiring market. If you can say to yourself 'oh I will be satisifed with 40K/year in insurance defense or a non-law job' then you show that you understand a bad, but unfortunately likely, outcome from the schools you are considering.
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:35 pm
by Cobretti
Paul Campos wrote:somewhatwayward wrote:Vpassarelli wrote:I am not going to re-take and when it comes to NY I want corporate law (which I know is hard to get), but would be satisfied as an ADA in Manhattan or something to that effect. Also got into Maryland and was WaitListed at Notre Dame and Brooklyn.
Manhattan DA's office is as competitive as big law. The other boroughs' DA's offices are not far behind. This is not a backup option, especially since there have been lots of cuts recently. I see a lot of 'oh I wil be satisfied with an 80K/year mid-law job' or 'oh i will be satisfied with an ADA position.' These statements demonstrate extreme ignorance of the legal hiring market. If you can say to yourself 'oh I will be satisifed with 40K/year in insurance defense or a non-law job' then you show that you understand a bad, but unfortunately likely, outcome from the schools you are considering.
Quoted by Campos, nice
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:38 pm
by 09042014
empyreanrrv wrote:Neither of the two New York schools are good, but you have a large scholarship and if you are prepared to drop out, the only thing you'll lose is time. St. Johns seems to place a little bit better than Hofstra-- if you aren't going to retake the LSAT you might as well go to St. John's and drop out after the first year if you aren't in the top 5%, cause biglaw isn't happening. If you are going to pull the trigger, at least be prepared to pull the plug too.
Wasting a year of your life on a 1/20 shot, including racking up an not insignificant amount of living expense debt, is fucking retarded.
If you only want to work in big law, don't go anywhere but T14.
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:40 pm
by hephaestus
romothesavior wrote:As before, the answer is retake.
If you won't, what is the reason?
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:04 pm
by Vpassarelli
So no? Minnesota wont make a significant difference?
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:07 pm
by stillwater
Vpassarelli wrote:So no? Minnesota wont make a significant difference?
No.
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:07 pm
by Vpassarelli
somewhatwayward wrote:Vpassarelli wrote:I am not going to re-take and when it comes to NY I want corporate law (which I know is hard to get), but would be satisfied as an ADA in Manhattan or something to that effect. Also got into Maryland and was WaitListed at Notre Dame and Brooklyn.
Manhattan DA's office is as competitive as big law. The other boroughs' DA's offices are not far behind. This is not a backup option, especially since there have been lots of cuts recently. I see a lot of 'oh I wil be satisfied with an 80K/year mid-law job' or 'oh i will be satisfied with an ADA position.' These statements demonstrate extreme ignorance of the legal hiring market. If you can say to yourself 'oh I will be satisifed with 40K/year in insurance defense or a non-law job' then you show that you understand a bad, but unfortunately likely, outcome from the schools you are considering.
I didn't mean it that way. Through my research and talking to over 20 alumni of St. John's I was told their alumni network places well in NYC DAs offices.n I by no means meant it was easy or I wouldn't have to excel in school
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:08 pm
by Vpassarelli
stillwater wrote:Vpassarelli wrote:So no? Minnesota wont make a significant difference?
No.
Thank you
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:17 pm
by bizzybone1313
mrizza wrote:Paul Campos wrote:somewhatwayward wrote:Vpassarelli wrote:I am not going to re-take and when it comes to NY I want corporate law (which I know is hard to get), but would be satisfied as an ADA in Manhattan or something to that effect. Also got into Maryland and was WaitListed at Notre Dame and Brooklyn.
Manhattan DA's office is as competitive as big law. The other boroughs' DA's offices are not far behind. This is not a backup option, especially since there have been lots of cuts recently. I see a lot of 'oh I wil be satisfied with an 80K/year mid-law job' or 'oh i will be satisfied with an ADA position.' These statements demonstrate extreme ignorance of the legal hiring market. If you can say to yourself 'oh I will be satisifed with 40K/year in insurance defense or a non-law job' then you show that you understand a bad, but unfortunately likely, outcome from the schools you are considering.
Quoted by Campos, nice
Lol. I bet tomorrow Campos is going to create a new blog post based on this thread.
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:28 pm
by guano
Vpassarelli wrote:I didn't mean it that way. Through my research and talking to over 20 alumni of St. John's I was told their alumni network places well in NYC DAs offices.n I by no means meant it was easy or I wouldn't have to excel in school
That's probably more than the number of St. John's grads who place well in the NYC DA's office
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:52 am
by romothesavior
Vpassarelli wrote:somewhatwayward wrote:Vpassarelli wrote:I am not going to re-take and when it comes to NY I want corporate law (which I know is hard to get), but would be satisfied as an ADA in Manhattan or something to that effect. Also got into Maryland and was WaitListed at Notre Dame and Brooklyn.
Manhattan DA's office is as competitive as big law. The other boroughs' DA's offices are not far behind. This is not a backup option, especially since there have been lots of cuts recently. I see a lot of 'oh I wil be satisfied with an 80K/year mid-law job' or 'oh i will be satisfied with an ADA position.' These statements demonstrate extreme ignorance of the legal hiring market. If you can say to yourself 'oh I will be satisifed with 40K/year in insurance defense or a non-law job' then you show that you understand a bad, but unfortunately likely, outcome from the schools you are considering.
I didn't mean it that way. Through my research and talking to over 20 alumni of St. John's I was told their alumni network places well in NYC DAs offices.n I by no means meant it was easy or I wouldn't have to excel in school
Yet you referred to it as a backup plan of sorts. So... yeah I'd say somewhatwayward nailed it.
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:00 am
by rad lulz
--ImageRemoved--
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:23 am
by reasonable_man
Oy vey.
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:54 am
by althalius
St. John's over Hofstra, definitely. With your LSAT score you may be able to get into Fordham, which would obviously be your best bet.
I actually think Minnesota is a fair option, however, over those two schools. It's a much higher-ranked school with off-campus BigLaw interviewing in New York (a joint venture with WUSTL, UCLA, USC, Wisc.) through which you could get a job if you were in the top 20% of the class, esp. because of your prior NYC connections. If you are really set on BigLaw, you could also transfer to NYU or Columbia by getting in the top 15-20% of your class at a T20, as opposed to top 1% at lower-tier New York schools. Finally, Minnesota is based in a city with decent BigLaw options in its own right; a couple of those firms (Robins Kaplan, Dorsey & Whitney) have offices in New York that might be somewhat easy to transfer to or interview at. Worth a second look imo.
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:26 am
by ndirish2010
Don't go to Minnesota at sticker and don't go there with no prior connections to the state.
The correct answer is retake and hope you can ED NU.
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:01 am
by guano
althalius wrote:St. John's over Hofstra, definitely. With your LSAT score you may be able to get into Fordham, which would obviously be your best bet.
I actually think Minnesota is a fair option, however, over those two schools. It's a much higher-ranked school with off-campus BigLaw interviewing in New York (a joint venture with WUSTL, UCLA, USC, Wisc.) through which you could get a job if you were in the top 20% of the class, esp. because of your prior NYC connections. If you are really set on BigLaw, you could also transfer to NYU or Columbia by getting in the top 15-20% of your class at a T20, as opposed to top 1% at lower-tier New York schools. Finally, Minnesota is based in a city with decent BigLaw options in its own right; a couple of those firms (Robins Kaplan, Dorsey & Whitney) have offices in New York that might be somewhat easy to transfer to or interview at. Worth a second look imo.
Of course, if you don't make it into the top 20, you're fucked. And you probably won't be top 20%
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:16 am
by rad lulz
Is guano dingbat?
Re: New York Employment-Minnesota VS. lower ranked NY schools
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:22 am
by reasonable_man
guano wrote:althalius wrote:St. John's over Hofstra, definitely. With your LSAT score you may be able to get into Fordham, which would obviously be your best bet.
I actually think Minnesota is a fair option, however, over those two schools. It's a much higher-ranked school with off-campus BigLaw interviewing in New York (a joint venture with WUSTL, UCLA, USC, Wisc.) through which you could get a job if you were in the top 20% of the class, esp. because of your prior NYC connections. If you are really set on BigLaw, you could also transfer to NYU or Columbia by getting in the top 15-20% of your class at a T20, as opposed to top 1% at lower-tier New York schools. Finally, Minnesota is based in a city with decent BigLaw options in its own right; a couple of those firms (Robins Kaplan, Dorsey & Whitney) have offices in New York that might be somewhat easy to transfer to or interview at. Worth a second look imo.
Of course, if you don't make it into the top
204%, you're fucked. And you probably won't be top
20% 4%
Fixed that for ya...