Top Law Schools

Can any UVA/GW peeps chime in?

What are actual hiring statistics at both schools?

I got a good feeling from both schools.

edit: even if you are not from these schools please chime in.

commoner wrote:Can any UVA/GW peeps chime in?

What are actual hiring statistics at both schools?

I got a good feeling from both schools.

edit: even if you are not from these schools please chime in.

If you're not capable of doing even a modicum of research (hiring statistics are widely available) then you do not belong in law school

edit: sorry, I'm a little snarky this morning. Still, it's not hard to find the data

dingbat wrote:

commoner wrote:Can any UVA/GW peeps chime in?

What are actual hiring statistics at both schools?

I got a good feeling from both schools.

edit: even if you are not from these schools please chime in.

If you're not capable of doing even a modicum of research (hiring statistics are widely available) then you do not belong in law school

lol. what i want is more of a ground 0 perspective. These tend to be more accurate.

commoner wrote:

dingbat wrote:

commoner wrote:Can any UVA/GW peeps chime in?

What are actual hiring statistics at both schools?

I got a good feeling from both schools.

edit: even if you are not from these schools please chime in.

If you're not capable of doing even a modicum of research (hiring statistics are widely available) then you do not belong in law school

lol. what i want is more of a ground 0 perspective. These tend to be more accurate.

Tell UVA you want to attend if it is financially feasible and show them your full ride to GW. UVA seems to be one of the more generous T14's. I would imagine they atleast give you some money in response to it.

commoner wrote:

dingbat wrote:

commoner wrote:Can any UVA/GW peeps chime in?

What are actual hiring statistics at both schools?

I got a good feeling from both schools.

edit: even if you are not from these schools please chime in.

If you're not capable of doing even a modicum of research (hiring statistics are widely available) then you do not belong in law school

lol. what i want is more of a ground 0 perspective. These tend to be more accurate.

No, they tend to be anecdotal

UVA barely places half of its grads in biglaw, which is what you'd need to pay off the loan
GW barely places half of its grads in real law jobs, which is what you'd need to make it worthwhile

I would probably go to GW, work very hard, and then reevaluate and consider dropping out either after fall semester or at the end of the year depending on grades. After one semester you will have a pretty good idea of how much you like the material.

If this $$$$ is a named scholarship, you will want to do research (and ask the school for help) about how people with this award have done in the past 5/6 years.

Where do you want to practice? What do you want to do? How debt averse are you?

DC or NY.

Not sure what I want.

I have very strong ties to DC.

I don't like debt but if it is smart in a career sense then I'd do it.

UVA

I go to UVA and love it. I have a job with a NLJ250 firm for the summer; I am a 1L. Everyone that I know who is a 2L has a job for the summer - yes this is extremely anecdotal. I do know a few 3Ls that don't have anything super lined up.

I would not attend UVA at sticker. Trust me when I say that you just don't always know where you're going to end up in the class rank wise. I have a friend who was admitted to HYS and came to UVA for the money and is sitting a hair below median. However, UVA is really an awesome place. Where are you from and where do you want to work. If your only goal is NYC or DC then I would hesitate to come to UVA at sticker. But if you're from the South, especially Texas, then sticker would not be as much of a risk.

commoner wrote:DC or NY.

Not sure what I want.

I have very strong ties to DC.

I don't like debt but if it is smart in a career sense then I'd do it.

DC is a tough market to crack. Tough may be an understatement.

dingbat wrote:UVA barely places half of its grads in biglaw, which is what you'd need to pay off the loan
GW barely places half of its grads in real law jobs, which is what you'd need to make it worthwhile

According to career services, UVA's placement improved a good bit the last year.

.

NoodleyOne wrote:

dingbat wrote:UVA barely places half of its grads in biglaw, which is what you'd need to pay off the loan
GW barely places half of its grads in real law jobs, which is what you'd need to make it worthwhile

According to career services, UVA's placement improved a good bit the last year.

Then they should release that data for pete's sake. It can only help if it is true.

OP, what are your other options? IMO Penn is noticeably better than UVA. What about NU? Any $$ there?

If we're talking about a scholarship at GW that allows you to graduate with less than 100K in debt, GW and it's not even close. I am a UVA 3L who took the school at sticker. HTH.

NoodleyOne wrote:

dingbat wrote:UVA barely places half of its grads in biglaw, which is what you'd need to pay off the loan
GW barely places half of its grads in real law jobs, which is what you'd need to make it worthwhile

According to career services, UVA's placement improved a good bit the last year.

Anecdotally, this definitely seems true. Nearly every 2L I know that tried to get a firm job for this summer was successful.

UVAIce wrote:If your only goal is NYC or DC then I would hesitate to come to UVA at sticker. But if you're from the South, especially Texas, then sticker would not be as much of a risk.

I think these are both over generalizations. Someone from NY could have an easier time snagging a 2L SA in NYC than someone with similar grades, personality, work experience from ATL would have in getting an SA in ATL. TX is a great market right now, but grades/personality/work experience still matter outside of a few folks that snag 1L gigs before getting their grades back. DC is tough, but not nearly as hard for someone going in to IP.

dingbat wrote:http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=203975

OOF

yeah, but: "UVA just revealed that no less than forty members of the UVA class of 2010 were in law school-funded "jobs" nine months after graduation."

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... stats.html

And I imagine there were a considerable number of class of 2011 people with the same thing.

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:yeah, but: "UVA just revealed that no less than forty members of the UVA class of 2010 were in law school-funded "jobs" nine months after graduation."

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... stats.html

And I imagine there were a considerable number of class of 2011 people with the same thing.

This. I don't know why so many peeps take such a massive risk by Ed'ing to UVA. I guess if you don't have that many other options in terms of respectable employment, then peeps just decide to go all in.

bizzybone1313 wrote:

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:yeah, but: "UVA just revealed that no less than forty members of the UVA class of 2010 were in law school-funded "jobs" nine months after graduation."

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... stats.html

And I imagine there were a considerable number of class of 2011 people with the same thing.

This. I don't know why so many peeps take such a massive risk by Ed'ing to UVA. I guess if you don't have that many other options in terms of respectable employment, then peeps just decide to go all in.

I wouldn't say that it is a "massive risk," but that all depends on what your background is. If you are just the typical K-JD then yeah, it's going to be a risk at sticker, but not so much more than any other school outside of HYS. The more first-hand knowledge I gain about law school employment the more that I think the differences between some schools (outside of HYS) is really overblown. There is a lot of self-selection going on and strengths in particular markets. For example, for my purposes - no desire for DC or NYC - going to CLS or NYU wouldn't do me any real favors over UVA.

UVAIce wrote:

bizzybone1313 wrote:

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:yeah, but: "UVA just revealed that no less than forty members of the UVA class of 2010 were in law school-funded "jobs" nine months after graduation."

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... stats.html

And I imagine there were a considerable number of class of 2011 people with the same thing.

This. I don't know why so many peeps take such a massive risk by Ed'ing to UVA. I guess if you don't have that many other options in terms of respectable employment, then peeps just decide to go all in.

I wouldn't say that it is a "massive risk," but that all depends on what your background is. If you are just the typical K-JD then yeah, it's going to be a risk at sticker, but not so much more than any other school outside of HYS. The more first-hand knowledge I gain about law school employment the more that I think the differences between some schools (outside of HYS) is really overblown. There is a lot of self-selection going on and strengths in particular markets. For example, for my purposes - no desire for DC or NYC - going to CLS or NYU wouldn't do me any real favors over UVA.

Although half of what you're saying is right (it's not significantly more of a risk than any other non HYS school) that's really not the part that matters. And that's the part you're wrong on--it's a gargantuan risk. Even if you're not k-jd land in the bottom 1/3 here with sticker debt and you are in a hell of a situation. You're almost certainly shut out of biglaw and you're left battling it out for a LRAP qualifying job in the middle of a state and county budget epidemic.

I made a similar choice (NU sticker versus GW where my debt would be about 120k at graduation, including interest) and chose NU at sticker.

I think the question is, what kind of risk are you okay with? Make no mistake, there is a massive risk associated with both of these choices but they are very different types of risk. On one hand you have UVA where you have around a 40% chance of being 250k in debt while working as a lawyer at a small firm making 50k. On the other you have GW where you have a 40% chance of being 100k in debt and not even have a full time, long term job as a lawyer. Simply put, GW is nowhere close to risk free even with a substantial scholarship. There is a significant chance that you will end up with 50k+ debt (if not closer to 100k) and have not really gained anything out of your 3 years spent there since you won't even be a lawyer. This is not to say that UVA doesn't have its own set of immense risks because it does. There is a significant chance that you will be indebted for the next 2 decades of your life, forced to rely upon IBR to cover your debt payments.

I don't think there's a clear cut answer. Anybody who tells you there is is seriously oversimplifying the issue (or, even worse, ignoring the substantial risks on one side of the question). For me, the though that I would spend 3 years of my life and have nothing to show for it other than 100k debt terrified me more than 250k debt with a high likelihood I would be employed as a lawyer (and a decently high chance I would make biglaw, though of course getting biglaw doesn't necessarily mean the end of one's woes if they are 250k in debt). I'm not saying that my choice was rational or even reasonable, but that's how I saw it and chose it. There really is merit to the idea that there is no reasonable choice except T14 with a significant scholarship, but I couldn't achieve that (UGPA holding me back) and my prelaw career prospects weren't spectacular either.

How badly do you want biglaw? Are you okay committing the next few years of your life to chipping away at your debt with 70-80 hour weeks, aware that you could be fired before making a decent dent?

How badly do you want to be a lawyer? Is this something you've done some research on and think you'd be interested in? Could you ever see yourself doing anything else?

If you are biglaw or bust and absolutely have to be a lawyer, then go to UVA, see how you do after your first semester, and reevaluate your position. If you are not entirely committed to it and don't care about biglaw then go to GW and network like your career depended on it.