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Ti Malice wrote:Absolutely retake. The fact that you got a 167 with the albatross of the Kaplan methodology around your neck is pretty impressive. You should be able to improve quite a bit more with better methods at your disposal. If you like the structure a course provides, take one from Testmasters, Powerscore, or Manhattan LSAT.

With a 170, you're essentially a lock at NU. Your odds at Chicago are decent with a 171, and they're strong with a 172.

ndirish2010 wrote:Just PMed you back, but having seen your stats, you should definitely retake. That's a sweet GPA.

john7234797 wrote: I'm still waiting to hear back from Chicago, Northwestern, and Michigan but am not optimistic about any of them. Chicago's stats are out of my range. Northwestern wants people with a full year of work experience. I applied to Michigan late in the cycle and am not a URM. My softs aren't anything special (not horrible either as I worked during school and had an internship over the summer, but nothing that really stands out.)

JCougar wrote:

john7234797 wrote: I'm still waiting to hear back from Chicago, Northwestern, and Michigan but am not optimistic about any of them. Chicago's stats are out of my range. Northwestern wants people with a full year of work experience. I applied to Michigan late in the cycle and am not a URM. My softs aren't anything special (not horrible either as I worked during school and had an internship over the summer, but nothing that really stands out.)

wut?

ndirish2010 wrote:

JCougar wrote:

john7234797 wrote: I'm still waiting to hear back from Chicago, Northwestern, and Michigan but am not optimistic about any of them. Chicago's stats are out of my range. Northwestern wants people with a full year of work experience. I applied to Michigan late in the cycle and am not a URM. My softs aren't anything special (not horrible either as I worked during school and had an internship over the summer, but nothing that really stands out.)

wut?

Looks like it means exactly what he said: He applied to UM late in the cycle, and he's not a URM. What was so difficult to understand?

ndirish2010 wrote:

JCougar wrote:

john7234797 wrote: I'm still waiting to hear back from Chicago, Northwestern, and Michigan but am not optimistic about any of them. Chicago's stats are out of my range. Northwestern wants people with a full year of work experience. I applied to Michigan late in the cycle and am not a URM. My softs aren't anything special (not horrible either as I worked during school and had an internship over the summer, but nothing that really stands out.)

wut?

Looks like it means exactly what he said: He applied to UM late in the cycle, and he's not a URM. What was so difficult to understand?

JCougar wrote:

ndirish2010 wrote:

JCougar wrote:

john7234797 wrote: I'm still waiting to hear back from Chicago, Northwestern, and Michigan but am not optimistic about any of them. Chicago's stats are out of my range. Northwestern wants people with a full year of work experience. I applied to Michigan late in the cycle and am not a URM. My softs aren't anything special (not horrible either as I worked during school and had an internship over the summer, but nothing that really stands out.)

wut?

Looks like it means exactly what he said: He applied to UM late in the cycle, and he's not a URM. What was so difficult to understand?

I read them both in conjunction, as in "late in the cycle, Michigan only admits URMs." But I guess I can see how they were meant to be unrelated.

Nevertheless, this year is almost certainly not going to be a bad year to apply late in the cycle (just like last year), and this dood seems to be almost a lock to get into Michigan with the numbers he has, so I wouldn't be as pessimistic.

john7234797 wrote: I'm sorry if it came across as me whining about AA or anything, that wasn't my intention. Just giving additional info that could impact their decision. I hope you're right about Michigan but I'm not holding my breath. Even if I do get accepted it'll probably be at sticker price so that would be another decision I'd have to make before diving into a quarter million dollars of debt.

john7234797 wrote:I took a Kaplan Course second semester of my Junior year, did all the homework and studied throughout the semester. Classes ended in May and I stayed down at school for a month to really power study for the LSAT. My scores generally improved until I hit a plateau in my studying (all of a sudden reading comp which came naturally started becoming difficult as I tried incorporating the "Kaplan method"). I took the June LSAT and I was pretty happy with my score of 167 but was obviously hoping to break 170.

My undergraduate GPA from the University of Illinois majoring in History and Political Science was a 3.79 at the time I sent in my law school applications. I had a 4.0 last semester so now it's at a 3.82. My LSDAS GPA (which includes A+ as being higher than A) was a 3.83 at the time I submitted my application. Not sure what it is now, probably like a 3.84 or 3.85.

So to recap
LSAT (1 try): 167
LSDAS GPA: 3.83 (now a little higher, could go either way after spring semester when I graduate)

I've been accepted to Notre Dame with a $22K a year scholarship. No contingencies other than remaining in good standing.
I've been accepted into Illinois with a 50 % tuition scholarship. No stipulations.

I'm still waiting to hear back from Chicago, Northwestern, and Michigan but am not optimistic about any of them. Chicago's stats are out of my range. Northwestern wants people with a full year of work experience. I applied to Michigan late in the cycle and am not a URM. My softs aren't anything special (not horrible either as I worked during school and had an internship over the summer, but nothing that really stands out.)

I've lived in the Chicagoland my entire life and my career goals are 100 % centered around working in Chicago (or at least somewhere not too far from there). Aside from a girlfriend's uncle who is a big shot Defense Attorney (regularly appears on Fox News and CNN, on "superlawyers", recently defended a high profile client), I have no ties to the legal industry. I would like to work BigLaw but am comfortable working Mid-Law as long as it will give me the ability to pay off the debt I will inquire in Law School (thanks to scholarships + fin aid + family contribution + working I'm fortunate to be graduating undergrad debt free) and live a comfortable life (I don't really care if I'm fabulously wealthy but don't want to stress about money my whole life and would like to be able to do things like go to sporting events, own a home and be able to pay for my children's college some day.

I've wanted to be a Lawyer since my senior year of high school when I took a business law course as a blow-off elective that I ended up really liking a lot. However, everything I've read about lawyers and law school says this is a terrible idea since there's such an oversaturation of lawyers (damn you 3rd/4th tiers accepting anyone with a Bachelor's Degree) and structural changes in the profession (businesses have wisened up that they don't need to pay BigLaw $300 an hour so that green associates can do work that a paralegal can do at a fraction of the cost). I really have no other idea of what to do with my life or what I could be even become. My Liberal Arts degree isn't worth the paper it's to be printed on. Wish I would have majored in Business and just become an Accountant but I was of course a stupid 18 year old who thought I'd be making $160 K a year out of Law School by attending John Marshall. Oops.

So any advice would be helpful. Notre Dame and Illinois are good regional schools for where I want to work and the scholarships make it at least not as awful as it could be. But still, there's those other big T14 powerhouses in the area to compete with as well as Ivy League trustfund babies returning home. I really don't like the LSAT and would prefer to never open another book again but re-taking it and working a year could really push me into Northwestern or Michigan (maybe even Chicago if I do well enough) so it may be worth it? Sorry for the long first post, I've obviously been thinking about this for a while.

Suralin wrote:Sounds like you know what to do, so just do it.