Top Law Schools

Got a full ride to KU, not from there but from one of the surrounding states. Top 50% stip, if I'm not in the top 50% after first year I would drop out anyways. My biggest concern is that I have zero ties to KS and that this might cause employers to not wanna hire me. Should I go. Total cost would be like 15k, probably less.

Update, I now also have a full ride to UNL, same stips. Does this just come down to where I'd rather live?

Update: Creighton full ride

Where would you like to work? Your chances at biglaw anywhere are extremely low, there just aren't many spots in KC and a good chunk of them are occupied by T14/WUSTL/ND leaving only a few slots for Missouri, UMKC, and KU grads. Not to say it doesn't happen, but a lot of things have to go your way (i.e. Top ~10% is necessary not sufficient).

If you would be fine with a smaller firm, KU might make a lot of sense. It is one of the cheapest schools COL wise and tuition is offset so you could afford to look at opportunities that your indebted classmates might hesitate at.

Do you think people in Kansas would look at you like a local since you come from nearby, or would they see you as a carpetbagger? Many smaller markets are very insular and it can be hard for out-of-state students to find work there, but I'm not sure if that applies if you're, say, from OK and looking for KS.

I would contact KU and see if they can give you employment stats for people going back to your state. Does the degree travel at all across state lines?

Obviously biglaw would be a very long shot (less than 5% get it from KU) but with that debt you wouldn't need it. What you have to ask yourself is if three years of your life is worth a coin flip's chance of actually becoming a lawyer.

Edit: typo-ridden mess.

cooldude87 wrote:Got a full ride to KU, not from there but from one of the surrounding states. Top 50% stip, if I'm not in the top 50% after first year I would drop out anyways. My biggest concern is that I have zero ties to KS and that this might cause employers to not wanna hire me. Should I go. Total cost would be like 15k, probably less.

If you get along with people and are useful, you don't need to worry about not being from Kansas. You will have a great "why Kansas" elevator speech because you will have just spent three years earning a degree that is valuable in Kansas, not so much anywhere else. This is a very good offer IMO. I would probably take it depending on how the rest of the cycle played out. Congrats.

Thanks for the feedback. Not really looking for big law, I'd be happy with a firm job with a decent salary. I think I'll probably go.

Update, I now also have a full ride to UNL. Does this just come down to where I'd rather live?

UNL=Nebraska

cooldude87 wrote:Thanks for the feedback. Not really looking for big law, I'd be happy with a firm job with a decent salary. I think I'll probably go.

What's a decent salary to you?

Keep in mind that if you want to practice law, just under 50% had full-time, long-term legal jobs coming from KU for the class of 2011. Also note that the class of 2011 had 168 graduates, and the incoming classes over the last two years were 134 and 141.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=kansas

cooldude87 wrote:Update, I now also have a full ride to UNL. Does this just come down to where I'd rather live?

UNL=Nebraska

Does the Neb offer come with stips?

I think that it does come down to where you want to live. Kansas slightly better than Nebraska in my humble opinion, but to each his own.

KU at least gives you a fighting chance at KC and Missouri markets, Nebraska will probably limit you to Nebraska.

Go to KU. Great school and the best college town in America. Rock Chalk

biggemflowers wrote:Go to KU. Great school and the best college town in America. Rock Chalk

Neither of these are good reasons to choose a law school.

Yukos wrote:

biggemflowers wrote:Go to KU. Great school and the best college town in America. Rock Chalk

Neither of these are good reasons to choose a law school.

To be fair they strike me as reasons to choose KU over UNL

E - Caveat that UNL actually has better LST numbers, which must be considered. I think this is a correlation causation situation at play though.

2014 wrote:

Yukos wrote:

biggemflowers wrote:Go to KU. Great school and the best college town in America. Rock Chalk

Neither of these are good reasons to choose a law school.

To be fair they strike me as reasons to choose KU over UNL

E - Caveat that UNL actually has better LST numbers, which must be considered. I think this is a correlation causation situation at play though.

I don't trust self reported / career service assumed employment numbers from T-14 or T2, but unless the economy of Nebraska is doing better now than the economy of Kansas, I doubt there is an appreciable difference in employment outcomes between these two.

Yeah I agree. I think KU is a perfect combination of cheap, awesome college atmosphere, and relatively easy to get into that draws in people from way out of state, i.e. Maryland, Cali, NY, etc, who have absolutely no business being in school in Kansas and are categorically screwed the moment they step foot on campus.

I think the chances are very strong that if you control KU's student body for people from Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Nebraska, and maybe Colorado or Texas (i.e. the exhaustive list of places people should even be applying to KU from), the employment outcome looks better than 47% or w/e

2014 wrote:Yeah I agree. I think KU is a perfect combination of cheap, awesome college atmosphere, and relatively easy to get into that draws in people from way out of state, i.e. Maryland, Cali, NY, etc, who have absolutely no business being in school in Kansas and are categorically screwed the moment they step foot on campus.

I think the chances are very strong that if you control KU's student body for people from Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Nebraska, and maybe Colorado or Texas (i.e. the exhaustive list of places people should even be applying to KU from), the employment outcome looks better than 47% or w/e

I am from Oklahoma so do you think being from out of state would be less of an issue at KU. Also, what about Nebraska. Oklahoma isn't a bordering state but its not too far.

cooldude87 wrote:

2014 wrote:Yeah I agree. I think KU is a perfect combination of cheap, awesome college atmosphere, and relatively easy to get into that draws in people from way out of state, i.e. Maryland, Cali, NY, etc, who have absolutely no business being in school in Kansas and are categorically screwed the moment they step foot on campus.

I think the chances are very strong that if you control KU's student body for people from Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Nebraska, and maybe Colorado or Texas (i.e. the exhaustive list of places people should even be applying to KU from), the employment outcome looks better than 47% or w/e

I am from Oklahoma so do you think being from out of state would be less of an issue at KU. Also, what about Nebraska. Oklahoma isn't a bordering state but its not too far.

It's not about where the person's from, its about the person. If the right new yorker came along and got along with all the plainsfolk, told employers why he came to Kansas, and was a smart enough/decent enough guy, he could get a job in Kansas. People aren't prejudiced against those from other states necessarily, they just want to feel comfortable around their friends/coworkers. OP is from Oklahoma so would probably fit right in, no problem. However, though many on this site disagree, I think the right new yorker could equally be successful.

cooldude87 wrote:

2014 wrote:Yeah I agree. I think KU is a perfect combination of cheap, awesome college atmosphere, and relatively easy to get into that draws in people from way out of state, i.e. Maryland, Cali, NY, etc, who have absolutely no business being in school in Kansas and are categorically screwed the moment they step foot on campus.

I think the chances are very strong that if you control KU's student body for people from Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Nebraska, and maybe Colorado or Texas (i.e. the exhaustive list of places people should even be applying to KU from), the employment outcome looks better than 47% or w/e

I am from Oklahoma so do you think being from out of state would be less of an issue at KU. Also, what about Nebraska. Oklahoma isn't a bordering state but its not too far.

To the extent that you aren't in play for a national school, I think it makes sense for you to go to school in Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas, Nebraska, and Missouri in that order. Obviously for any of those it would need to be at a deep discount, but you have that part covered. Outside of those states I would think long and hard.

So yeah, I think Nebraska makes sense for you geographically but less so than Kansas.


And to the above I agree, but they would be battling a stigma from the start and when you are already at a disadvantage by going to a low ranked school, you don't want to do yourself any further disservices. Life kind of works like a bell curve imo, and to the extent that everyone is clumped around being an average interviewer, employers are going to take the average person who is from their area and is not a flight risk.

2014 wrote:

cooldude87 wrote:

2014 wrote:Yeah I agree. I think KU is a perfect combination of cheap, awesome college atmosphere, and relatively easy to get into that draws in people from way out of state, i.e. Maryland, Cali, NY, etc, who have absolutely no business being in school in Kansas and are categorically screwed the moment they step foot on campus.

I think the chances are very strong that if you control KU's student body for people from Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Nebraska, and maybe Colorado or Texas (i.e. the exhaustive list of places people should even be applying to KU from), the employment outcome looks better than 47% or w/e

I am from Oklahoma so do you think being from out of state would be less of an issue at KU. Also, what about Nebraska. Oklahoma isn't a bordering state but its not too far.

To the extent that you aren't in play for a national school, I think it makes sense for you to go to school in Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas, Nebraska, and Missouri in that order. Obviously for any of those it would need to be at a deep discount, but you have that part covered. Outside of those states I would think long and hard.

So yeah, I think Nebraska makes sense for you geographically but less so than Kansas.


And to the above I agree, but they would be battling a stigma from the start and when you are already at a disadvantage by going to a low ranked school, you don't want to do yourself any further disservices. Life kind of works like a bell curve imo, and to the extent that everyone is clumped around being an average interviewer, employers are going to take the average person who is from their area and is not a flight risk.

Two things. 1. to people in kansas, KU is not a "low ranked school," it is a good school. 2. though this seems to be very contentious on this website, going to the local school will convince most employers that you aren't a flight risk. for example, only a complete moron would attend KU with hopes of working in FL. I agree that being a local has some benefit, but the negative aspect of coming across the country to attend a state school is overstated on this site. morons aside, most people can come up with a logical "why Kansas" story, which will be corroborated by the fact that they choose to earn a degree that is only really valuable in Kansas.

Agree to disagree then. In a world with more grads than jobs, if I'm a Kansas employer and I'm looking at a relatively normal Florida kid and a relatively normal Kansas kid, both who went to KU, I'm going to interview both but I'm going to go with the Kansas kid. I mean why not? If they are basically fungible, you go with the one who not only went to KU but is from the area, has family in the area, etc, because my training investment in him is not going to go to waste.

I do believe that the rare combination of an academically successful, involved, good looking, charismatic out of stater can certainly break into the market, but most people don't meet that description.


Also at play here is the inexplicable belief by a solid portion of Kansans that Washburn is as good if not better than KU.

The scholarship will cover full tuition and fee's for the first year and it's renewable for the 2nd and 3rd. However if tuition and fee's go up second and third year, which I'm 100% sure they will, I'll have to make up the difference. Can't be more than one or two thousand but still, that's kind of dumb

cooldude87 wrote:The scholarship will cover full tuition and fee's for the first year and it's renewable for the 2nd and 3rd. However if tuition and fee's go up second and third year, which I'm 100% sure they will, I'll have to make up the difference. Can't be more than one or two thousand but still, that's kind of dumb

Very douchey. Did you apply to OU?

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:

cooldude87 wrote:The scholarship will cover full tuition and fee's for the first year and it's renewable for the 2nd and 3rd. However if tuition and fee's go up second and third year, which I'm 100% sure they will, I'll have to make up the difference. Can't be more than one or two thousand but still, that's kind of dumb

Very douchey. Did you apply to OU?

Yeah, OU only gave me 5k for the first year though and when I asked for more time gave me another 3K. I wouldn't have any living costs at OU but it would still be about 60K.

cooldude87 wrote:

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:

cooldude87 wrote:The scholarship will cover full tuition and fee's for the first year and it's renewable for the 2nd and 3rd. However if tuition and fee's go up second and third year, which I'm 100% sure they will, I'll have to make up the difference. Can't be more than one or two thousand but still, that's kind of dumb

Very douchey. Did you apply to OU?

Yeah, OU only gave me 5k for the first year though and when I asked for more time gave me another 3K. I wouldn't have any living costs at OU but it would still be about 60K.

Ok, but with living costs at KU wouldn't you be =

Did you do OU undergrad? If there is any chance you'll want to return to OK, maybe do OU Law. It would be worth it to pay a bit to go there even with the full-ride at KU.

Also, double deposit. They will give you a bit more later.

I think my first offer at OU was 10k a year, but by the time I withdrew it was up to 15k or so.

OU Law grad here. OP: did you specifically tell OU about the two full ride offers when you attempted to renegotiate your scholarship? They should be giving you more than $8k per year, but at the same time, in-state tuition (at least when I graduated) was only about $15k per year. If it's a renewable scholarship (and be sure to double check the stips) then OU for $24k with no living expenses is likely cheaper than KU or UNL full ride plus living expenses.