Cardozo vs. U of Toronto for NYC (big)law
Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:44 pm
been reading various things and %ages that might suggest either one - wondering what you guys think (think I know what the answer will be though..)
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Is that answer neither? Because that is TCR here.....another correct response is retake for a school that actually gives you a double digit shot at NYC big lawNDJ wrote:been reading various things and %ages that might suggest either one - wondering what you guys think (think I know what the answer will be though..)
OP has a 174. Not sure what's going through that crazy head of his....somewhatwayward wrote:Is that answer neither? Because that is TCR here.....another correct response is retake for a school that actually gives you a double digit shot at NYC big lawNDJ wrote:been reading various things and %ages that might suggest either one - wondering what you guys think (think I know what the answer will be though..)
3.55/174 does not even need to ED UVA... (S)he can get money from lower T14 schools and has a GREAT shot at Columbia/NYUWormfather wrote:with a 3.55 / 174 you are wasting your time with these two schools. T14 maybe even EDUVA.
Are you a URM?
NDJ wrote:Haha-was just wondering!!(Didnt know anyone would remember me from other threads..) I am much more debt adverse than what seems like most people on here, and not 100% committed to big law...out of my applications I wanted to have one or two very affordable options to at least eventually weigh against the likely scenario of T14 w/o significant $. Cardozo waived my fee so nothing to lose, was curious whether u of t was worth looking into (im also canadian..my fam lives in Toronto but am more or less committed to staying in NYC long term, where I currently live)
On another note is the general debate of being big fish vs little fish. There is a % at both of these schools that gets ny big firm work (seems like SOMEwhere between 5-20% for both..) I don't think it's outrageous to assume that the people who outrank a school are likely to be in that top tier of students.. And those people save at least 100k over the Columbia grads that get the SAME jobs..it happens every year..!! Just sayin..
And no I'm not urm..
If you don't like debt you should focus on getting into Columbia/NYU or Cornell with money. It might be counter-intuitive but think about it: Going to Dozo with a full-ride, you're still paying huge CoL expenses living in New York, so you're piling on debt. On the other hand, you have a slim chance to pay the debt back since biglaw prospects out of Dozo are so bad. Yes you will get more debt out of Columbia/NYU/Cornell, but your chances of actually servicing that debt will be much higher. Moral of the story: don't go to Dozo.NDJ wrote:Haha-was just wondering!!(Didnt know anyone would remember me from other threads..) I am much more debt adverse than what seems like most people on here, and not 100% committed to big law...out of my applications I wanted to have one or two very affordable options to at least eventually weigh against the likely scenario of T14 w/o significant $. Cardozo waived my fee so nothing to lose, was curious whether u of t was worth looking into (im also canadian..my fam lives in Toronto but am more or less committed to staying in NYC long term, where I currently live)
On another note is the general debate of being big fish vs little fish. There is a % at both of these schools that gets ny big firm work (seems like SOMEwhere between 5-20% for both..) I don't think it's outrageous to assume that the people who outrank a school are likely to be in that top tier of students.. And those people save at least 100k over the Columbia grads that get the SAME jobs..it happens every year..!! Just sayin..
And no I'm not urm..
Two notes:NDJ wrote:On another note is the general debate of being big fish vs little fish. There is a % at both of these schools that gets ny big firm work (seems like SOMEwhere between 5-20% for both..) I don't think it's outrageous to assume that the people who outrank a school are likely to be in that top tier of students.. And those people save at least 100k over the Columbia grads that get the SAME jobs..it happens every year..!! Just sayin..
Fair enough. (Re: CoL in nyc - I actually have a nice setup and pay very little..got lucky. plus dozo seems to give 10k stipends sometimes on top of full ride..) I definitely see all of your points - I guess I didn't think grades were as much of a crap shoot as that - but at CLS/NYU there's also the added risk of being at the bottom ___% of the class (50? 20?) and not being able to get a biglaw gig, and being stuck with debt...Yukos wrote:
If you don't like debt you should focus on getting into Columbia/NYU or Cornell with money. It might be counter-intuitive but think about it: Going to Dozo with a full-ride, you're still paying huge CoL expenses living in New York, so you're piling on debt. On the other hand, you have a slim chance to pay the debt back since biglaw prospects out of Dozo are so bad. Yes you will get more debt out of Columbia/NYU/Cornell, but your chances of actually servicing that debt will be much higher. Moral of the story: don't go to Dozo.
Re whether you getting a full-ride to a school implies you'll be better than everyone there: people on TLS generally say grades are to some extent arbitrary and there's plenty of people on scholarship who do badly. If you don't like a schools job prospects for people at median, don't go because that's the most likely place in the class you'll end up.
Re: Yale - (I thought I was on the wrong page when I saw "Yale" in this thread..Wormfather wrote:You're telling me that you cant see Yale taking a music major who writes a compelling essay, regardless of the GPA?romothesavior wrote:Yale? He's got a 3.55.
To be clear, I wasnt saying he was a lock or anything, no one is a lock for Yale, I was more or less illustrating that for him, Yale is a more logical outcome than dozo.
I hope to figure that out myself sometime over the next 40 years..Wormfather wrote:
Seriously, if can string three pages together about how music and law go hand in hand, Yale would probably eat that up.
Toronto gets some placement in NYC. The vast majority of Torontonians don't -want- to go to NYC, so the lower percentage might even be a bit misleading in terms of actual probabilities.NDJ wrote:Fair enough. (Re: CoL in nyc - I actually have a nice setup and pay very little..got lucky. plus dozo seems to give 10k stipends sometimes on top of full ride..) I definitely see all of your points - I guess I didn't think grades were as much of a crap shoot as that - but at CLS/NYU there's also the added risk of being at the bottom ___% of the class (50? 20?) and not being able to get a biglaw gig, and being stuck with debt...Yukos wrote:
If you don't like debt you should focus on getting into Columbia/NYU or Cornell with money. It might be counter-intuitive but think about it: Going to Dozo with a full-ride, you're still paying huge CoL expenses living in New York, so you're piling on debt. On the other hand, you have a slim chance to pay the debt back since biglaw prospects out of Dozo are so bad. Yes you will get more debt out of Columbia/NYU/Cornell, but your chances of actually servicing that debt will be much higher. Moral of the story: don't go to Dozo.
Re whether you getting a full-ride to a school implies you'll be better than everyone there: people on TLS generally say grades are to some extent arbitrary and there's plenty of people on scholarship who do badly. If you don't like a schools job prospects for people at median, don't go because that's the most likely place in the class you'll end up.
I may also save up money for another year, apply earlier, and possibly even try to retake higher if I have time to study - for more chance at CCN $...
Still contemplating whether U of T is worth an app (will cost me $300 what with the price for olsas, the canadian version of lsac), since failing nyc job options there are plenty of nice jobs in TO..
Re: Yale - (I thought I was on the wrong page when I saw "Yale" in this thread..Wormfather wrote:You're telling me that you cant see Yale taking a music major who writes a compelling essay, regardless of the GPA?romothesavior wrote:Yale? He's got a 3.55.
To be clear, I wasnt saying he was a lock or anything, no one is a lock for Yale, I was more or less illustrating that for him, Yale is a more logical outcome than dozo.) if there's even a 10-20% shot of getting in with my numbers I would love to apply (same goes for H/S), but my understanding thus far has been it would be a waste of $300.. as far as the music thing, I do have a rather interesting musical background, including prizes in a few national/international competitions (1st prize out of 400,000 people in a Canadian student competition, for example..) and a full ride to Berklee..I have no idea if this kind of thing has any impact whatsoever on application to Yale/any other school, but maybe you guys could advise..?
I hope to figure that out myself sometime over the next 40 years..Wormfather wrote:
Seriously, if can string three pages together about how music and law go hand in hand, Yale would probably eat that up.
Can you expand on this part?paratactical wrote:Two notes:NDJ wrote:On another note is the general debate of being big fish vs little fish. There is a % at both of these schools that gets ny big firm work (seems like SOMEwhere between 5-20% for both..) I don't think it's outrageous to assume that the people who outrank a school are likely to be in that top tier of students.. And those people save at least 100k over the Columbia grads that get the SAME jobs..it happens every year..!! Just sayin..
1) The idea that you can feel secure that you'll be in the top of your class because you go to a shitty school is not an intelligent thing to bet on. Look around TLS at threads about grades and you'll see why quickly.
2) The people who "save" money over the CLS grad do not get the "SAME" jobs. Even the very very very rare Carbozo grad who gets into a prestigious biglaw firm in NYC does not have the same job as a CLS grad working at the firm. If you think TLS is prestige obsessed, you should see biglaw war rooms.
You have almost no shot at the four: http://myLSN.info/zrft3cNDJ wrote: question this thread has left me with is whether or not my background would render application fees to any of Y/S/H(/Berkeley?) an economically reasonable expense. Total $ I've spent on LSAT books/fees + app fees since I decided to apply for law school 3 months ago has luckily been only just under/over $1000, so I think I've escaped pretty cheaply so far, but still I wouldn't want to throw any money out the window.
Addendums are only useful if your bad grades were during a discrete period of time (e.g. sophomore year) and you have a very legitimate excuse. Some strong explanations I've seen on TLS are battling cancer, sister committed suicide and untreated bi-polar disorder. If it's something like "I didn't adjust well to college" or "I'm bad at math and took two calc classes" then an addendum would just annoy the adcomm. Don't worry about it too much though, you should have some great options regardless.NDJ wrote:thanks man. if i do go for harvard, should i write some kind of addendum addressing the GPA? i just feel like it will be the elephant in the room otherwise..
i may start another thread on this just to get some more opinions..