Syracuse for FBI? Forum

[Lawman 2016]

Hey guys. Been a reader on here for a few months but first time posting. I'm still waiting to hear back from schools but one of them I applied to is Syracuse. I know that it is pretty expensive but they do offer a National Security and Counter-terrorism program through their law school. My ultimate goal/dream would be to work for the FBI, hopefully as an agent, and going to law school is the avenue I plan on taking to achieve this, over becoming a police officer, and I don't forsee myself joining the military.

I'm curious if anyone knows how influential their national security program is in regards to homeland security placement/goverment jobs. I'm not shooting for Big Law, and I know that SUCOL wouldn't give me a great chance at that regardless if I did. But I'm hoping for a more government related position. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

Just to give you some information, my #'s are 3.63 GPA and a 158 LSAT score. Not top shelf but hopefully I can get some money from a school like Syracuse with them. Both are above the 75th percentile for SUCOL incoming students.

[cinephile]

Specialty programs are meaningless.

[North]

The FBI Law Entry is by far the most competitive and over-saturated path to becoming an SA. A JD from Syracuse with a "concentration in national security and counter-terrorism" won't do you any favors when you're competing against T14 grads with good grades and military experience who want the same cool job.

Syracuse's national security and counter-terrorism program is a catchy, impressive-sounding marketing tool. You're being marketed to, dude.

[dingbat]

I always forget Syracuse has a law school. Do not go there unless you want to live and work in northern New York state

[Lawman 2016]

The FBI Law Entry is by far the most competitive and over-saturated path to becoming an SA. A JD from Syracuse with a "concentration in national security and counter-terrorism" won't do you any favors when you're competing against T14 grads with good grades and military experience who want the same cool job.

Syracuse's national security and counter-terrorism program is a catchy, impressive-sounding marketing tool. You're being marketed to, dude.

Thanks for the reply. I have heard though that the school you go to matters a lot less when it comes to FBI hiring.

[bluepenguin]

I always forget Syracuse has a law school. Do not go there unless you want to live and work in northern New York state

Hey now, Syracuse is well loved in central NY as well

[dingbat]

I always forget Syracuse has a law school. Do not go there unless you want to live and work in northern New York state

Hey now, Syracuse is well loved in central NY as well

Central, Northern, whatever. It's basically Alabama light

[BullShitWithBravado]

I always forget Syracuse has a law school. Do not go there unless you want to live and work in northern New York state

Syracuse is also super cold and gets like two months worth of sun per year. The only upside is that they have SU basketball.

[twenty]

My ultimate goal/dream would be to work for the FBI, hopefully as an agent, and going to law school is the avenue I plan on taking to achieve this, over becoming a police officer, and I don't forsee myself joining the military.

1) FBI is incredibly hard to get into right now due a) budget b) folks coming back from Afghanistan beating you. Just because they have an open posting doesn't mean they'll take anyone.
2) The most over-saturated path is law. You're probably better off going for your MS in computer science or engineering.
3) Many SAs from other groups (primarily ICE) go over to FBI. You're better off trying to get into DHS HSI or even USMS and going over to FBI after a few years.
4) The secret back-door to FLEO of any sort is to have an existing TS clearance. If you want to confirm this, find the person hires SAs and say, "I have top secret clearance." Then look down at their pants. They should be sporting a massive boner.

You can get TS clearance from a lot of entry level intelligence jobs, which, by the way, is a lateral and less-saturated entry to FBI.

[paul554]

The FBI could give two squats about where your law degree is from. That being said, veterans have preference, police officers have preference and other special agents have preference over you. The FBI in general is the most well known federal agency for special agent positions and therefore is overwhelmed with applications. They also don't want to waste their time interviewing you and so forth just to find out that you have a disqualifying background issue. This risk is mitigated by first interviewing those who work in law enforcement and hence should have a clean background.

[westie25]

As someone who recently completed the hiring process for the FBI for an internship slot - yes, you go through the actual hiring process just for an internship position - I can give you a little insight. The 1st piece of advice is...don't listen to anyone who hasn't gone through the process (i.e. many people who will respond to you), b/c they really don't know anything. The rest...

- Try to get an internship. They hire from the program. Even with the hiring freeze.
- If you want to go to law school, that's good, but also learn a language. Knowing one of their critical languages (listed on their website) will give you a HUGE advantage.
- Military does receive preference (as in any federal position). Law enforcement...eh. Not really. The comment from someone about not wasting time on background checks isn't accurate. The FBI picks primaries and alternates for each position. What does that mean? They're spending time on extra background checks even though they're only filling one position just in case someone falls through. For two internship spots, they had two primaries and six alternates. Hiring runs the same way - a primary & alternate(s).
- Top secret security clearance is specific to that organization. Indicating that you've rec'vd it before is good, but it's not going to get you the job. Security clearance expires & needs to be renewed. I rec'vd it through the FBI & it did not transfer to DEA. I went through the process again only 3 months after receiving top secret clearance through the FBI.
- Make connections. Talk to recruiters. Build up your résumé - they like relevant experience.
- If you're not 100% set on law school, consider the accounting & computer science routes into the FBI. Of course, learn that critical language w/ these two as well.
- Finally, there's also USMS, DEA, ATF, Secret Service, etc. to consider if your goal is federal law enforcement.

[twenty]

Top secret security clearance is specific to that organization. Indicating that you've rec'vd it before is good, but it's not going to get you the job. Security clearance expires & needs to be renewed. I rec'vd it through the FBI & it did not transfer to DEA. I went through the process again only 3 months after receiving top secret clearance through the FBI.

Everyone I know who has TS clearance, theirs is good for five years, though granted I'm only really familiar with DoD and DoS.

Since security clearance/PIV is a nightmare for HR and recruiting folks, indicating that you've received it before pole-vaults you over the vast numbers of applicants that can't get clearance/haven't gotten it yet. I've seen very-well qualified applicants get dropped because they did too much weed in college or couldn't pass the poly. Putting an HR person's mind at ease gives you a significant leg-up here.

I'll agree with you that it's not going to get you the job if you're way under-qualified, but even cross-agency, pre-clearance is going to absolutely help.

(Not disagreeing with anything you're saying, by the way)

Even with the hiring freeze.

Except this. My agency literally has to go to the secretary/president to get overtime right now, so if an agency can't hire you because of funding, they really can't hire you.

[Br3v]

Specialty programs are meaningless.

[westie25]

Even with the hiring freeze.

Except this. My agency literally has to go to the secretary/president to get overtime right now, so if an agency can't hire you because of funding, they really can't hire you.

There are always exceptions. Someone I know who went through the internship program from June-August 2012 was hired. He's now an agent with the FBI. I know that DEA has hired people during the freeze. There are ways, and they are hiring the people they want to hire.

[WanderingPondering]

I always forget Syracuse has a law school. Do not go there unless you want to live and work in northern New York state

Hey now, Syracuse is well loved in central NY as well

Central, Northern, whatever. It's basically Alabama light

No, not really.

[rvadog]

The FBI Law Entry is by far the most competitive and over-saturated path to becoming an SA. A JD from Syracuse with a "concentration in national security and counter-terrorism" won't do you any favors when you're competing against T14 grads with good grades and military experience who want the same cool job.

Syracuse's national security and counter-terrorism program is a catchy, impressive-sounding marketing tool. You're being marketed to, dude.

[stillwater]

if you do all this, you could probably get a job at the TSA waiving a wand.

[mephistopheles]

if you do all this, you could probably get a job at the TSA waiving a wand.

*probably*

[AllezOM]

As someone who is currently employed as a LEO in a federal agency (not FBI) I can attest that the vast majority of our new hires fall into 3 categories 1) Prior Military 2) Prior local 3) A combination of both.

One recent hire was a lawyer who got his degree while working as a police officer.

[Lawman 2016]

Ok so from the sounds of things the law route isn't the best way to go in regards to becoming an FBI agent. But is the Syracuse National Security program beneficial in anyway whatsoever in regards to placement in the government, or is it the law school equivilant of an art history major?

[North]

Ok so from the sounds of things the law route isn't the best way to go in regards to becoming an FBI agent. But is the Syracuse National Security program beneficial in anyway whatsoever in regards to placement in the government, or is it the law school equivilant of an art history major?

Art history degrees don't cost a quarter of a million dollars.

[paul554]

Ok so from the sounds of things the law route isn't the best way to go in regards to becoming an FBI agent. But is the Syracuse National Security program beneficial in anyway whatsoever in regards to placement in the government, or is it the law school equivilant of an art history major?

Doing what in the government? I am former military and federal law enforcement and a law degree will really help my career either in the civilian sector or government, but that is only because it is in ADDITION to my previous work experience and veterans preference.
Most federal agencies that deal with national security issues or law enforcement would generally prefer a well rounded candidate with WE and a degree. I think focusing on relevant internships and such would be far more beneficial then a concentration in anything. Remember, outside of expected service positions you have to compete against status candidates and veterans who will have hiring preference over you. In most cases this means that every single veteran will be at the top of the hiring list and must be considered before you! Some places like the FBI do use the rule of three, as mentioned before, but they are still choosing the top candidates that you probably wont be a part of. There is a lot to consider here, and a lot of ways you can "backdoor" into a federal job that I prefer to not go into, but suffice to say there is no program out there that really "grantees" you a job with the FBI. Heck if you cant pass the PT test then every degree in the world wont really do you a lick of good!

[grapefruits]

Syracuse is a good choice if you're looking to be unemployed with a graduate degree.

[Lawman 2016]

Syracuse is a good choice if you're looking to be unemployed with a graduate degree.

If the debt load is managable through grants/scholarships, would it still be a terrible choice? 50% full-time employment is not great, but it's better than a lot of the schools ranked ahead of it/non-T14. If it cost less than 50k total hypothetically, would it still be a mistake?

[North]

Syracuse is a good choice if you're looking to be unemployed with a graduate degree.

If the debt load is managable through grants/scholarships, would it still be a terrible choice? 50% full-time employment is not great, but it's better than a lot of the schools ranked ahead of it/non-T14. If it cost less than 50k total hypothetically, would it still be a mistake?

$50k including cost of living?