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American University Washington College of Law
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:37 am
by Paul Campos
Yesterday I wrote a post
http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... ategy.html on the question of how schools like American (very expensive, terrible employment numbers) were dealing with the rapidly shrinking applicant pool. I concluded that, based on the evidence from TLS, American at least wasn't going to cut real tuition (by offering bigger "scholarships," i.e., cross-subsidized discounts off sticker), but rather would do what it did last year, which was to slash admissions standards even further -- the median LSAT for last year's entering class went from 162 to 159, and this year's seems likely to be lower still. Someone purporting to be an admissions person at AU responded in the thread:
I am an admissions officer at American and can tell you that Professor Campos' post sets a new low for him. We continue to have many more qualified applicants than we have spaces for. Of course if we were really a scam we would just admit everyone to maximize our profits. But care about our students. So we routinely have had to turn away many great applicants simply because we know increasing class size would hurt the quality of education. Today, we are able to admit more of the great students who may have had a problem during college (perhaps their grades suffered because they had to take care of a sick relative) or who just aren't that talented at taking multiple choice tests. I for one welcome this development, I certainly don't enjoy rejecting applicants who have the potential to be great lawyers. And, I think many commentators on this board would agree that one's ability to fill in bubbles on a multiple choice test has little to do with one's potential as an attorney. As for the idea that American is in any trouble, this is ridiculous. We continue to receive many more great applicants than we can possibly admit.
I'm not posting this in the applicant/admit thread to which I linked as I understand there's a TLS policy that you're not supposed to debate these kinds of matters in those threads but rather in other forums. But I thought the TLS coummunity would find this glimpse into the current mindset of at least one admissions office interesting.
Re: American University Washington College of Law
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:03 am
by Tiago Splitter
What's with the recent trend of admissions deans doubling down? These guys really need to learn to just keep their mouths shut while filling their pockets with taxpayer money. I'm not sure if it's hubris, desperation, or some combination thereof, but it makes for great reading.
Re: American University Washington College of Law
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:52 am
by cahwc12
Should have posted that quote in the LSAT prep forum so those studying for the test could diagram the argument.
Re: American University Washington College of Law
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:52 am
by 20130312
Tiago Splitter wrote:What's with the recent trend of admissions deans doubling down? These guys really need to learn to just keep their mouths shut while filling their pockets with taxpayer money. I'm not sure if it's hubris, desperation, or some combination thereof, but it makes for great reading.
Exactly. That guy's post is absurd and out of touch.
Re: American University Washington College of Law
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:07 am
by WanderingPondering
I love/hate how deans and admissions committees never directly respond with an honest answer about their true employment prospects.
Re: American University Washington College of Law
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:25 am
by BigJT
Tiago Splitter wrote:What's with the recent trend of admissions deans doubling down? These guys really need to learn to just keep their mouths shut while filling their pockets with taxpayer money. I'm not sure if it's hubris, desperation, or some combination thereof, but it makes for great reading.
Invariably, it seems to backfire. How many people would actually know or care about Case Western or Santa Clara or New England if they didn't go public with their idiocy?
Re: American University Washington College of Law
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:36 am
by jwinaz
Paul Campos wrote:
I am an admissions officer at American and can tell you that Professor Campos' post sets a new low for him. We continue to have many more qualified applicants than we have spaces for. Of course if we were really a scam we would just admit everyone to maximize our profits. But care about our students. So we routinely have had to turn away many great applicants simply because we know increasing class size would hurt the quality of education. Today, we are able to admit more of the great students who may have had a problem during college (perhaps their grades suffered because they had to take care of a sick relative) or who just aren't that talented at taking multiple choice tests. I for one welcome this development, I certainly don't enjoy rejecting applicants who have the potential to be great lawyers. And, I think many commentators on this board would agree that one's ability to fill in bubbles on a multiple choice test has little to do with one's potential as an attorney. As for the idea that American is in any trouble, this is ridiculous. We continue to receive many more great applicants than we can possibly admit.
The big question that most prospectives would have and want to know about is employment. I think if Deans can address that issue (with specifics), then that would greatly help their cause.
Re: American University Washington College of Law
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:54 am
by jenesaislaw
LST is still waiting on American's NALP report.
Re: American University Washington College of Law
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:53 pm
by Rahviveh
This could also be a random troll posing as an adcom.
Re: American University Washington College of Law
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:59 pm
by TheThriller
jenesaislaw wrote:LST is still waiting on American's NALP report.
Doesn't mail take a while when sent from the island of D.C?
Re: American University Washington College of Law
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:43 pm
by rad lulz
ChampagnePapi wrote:This could also be a random troll posing as an adcom.
It could, but they lurk, and they say stuff like this all the time.
Re: American University Washington College of Law
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:49 pm
by manofjustice
Person who says he is an American AdCom wrote:Today, we are able to admit more of the great students who may have had a problem during college (perhaps their grades suffered because they had to take care of a sick relative) or who just aren't that talented at taking multiple choice tests. I for one welcome this development, I certainly don't enjoy rejecting applicants who have the potential to be great lawyers. And, I think many commentators on this board would agree that one's ability to fill in bubbles on a multiple choice test has little to do with one's potential as an attorney.
So, American is not too keen on the LSAT and GPA as measures of potential...
"Nothing to see here folks, just abandoning metrics..."
Yea.
Re: American University Washington College of Law
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:00 pm
by simplycatalina
cahwc12 wrote:Should have posted that quote in the LSAT prep forum so those studying for the test could diagram the argument.
LOL great idea.
Re: American University Washington College of Law
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:33 pm
by somewhatwayward
manofjustice wrote:Person who says he is an American AdCom wrote:Today, we are able to admit more of the great students who may have had a problem during college (perhaps their grades suffered because they had to take care of a sick relative) or who just aren't that talented at taking multiple choice tests. I for one welcome this development, I certainly don't enjoy rejecting applicants who have the potential to be great lawyers. And, I think many commentators on this board would agree that one's ability to fill in bubbles on a multiple choice test has little to do with one's potential as an attorney.
So, American is not too keen on the LSAT and GPA as measures of potential...
"Nothing to see here folks, just abandoning metrics..."
Yea.
LOL yep
also FTFY:
whoever wrote:Today, we are able to admit more of the great students who may have had a problem during college (perhaps their grades suffered because they had to take care of a sick relative they partied too much and were lazy special snowflakes who now think they are entitled to get into law school despite their crappy grades)
Re: American University Washington College of Law
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:14 pm
by manofjustice
I like the line about "aren't too talented taking multiple choice tests."
Ya. 5 options are a killer.
Re: American University Washington College of Law
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:12 am
by romothesavior
I hope this trend continues and shitholes like American are closed in a few years. It could start happening soon to a lot of the expensive crap schools. The only discouraging thing is that the people running the scams and spewing this nonsense will simply retire to their McMansions and enjoy dat taxpayer money they defrauded from their students.