Top Law Schools

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Where do you want to work?

gaud wrote:Where do you want to work?

I'm pretty open to working anywhere, and won't choose a place where i can't see myself working. I realize anything outside of T-14 is restricted to certain regions. However, the more flexibility of job placement, the better.

Where are you from and where do you have family, educational, or personal ties

alle0415 wrote:

gaud wrote:Where do you want to work?

I'm pretty open to working anywhere, and won't choose a place where i can't see myself working. I realize anything outside of T-14 is restricted to certain regions. However, the more flexibility of job placement, the better.

You wont get location flexibility with schools like that so you either need to retake and go to T14 with flexibility or you need to pick a region you wanna work in and go to that school.

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alle0415 wrote:

rad lulz wrote:Where are you from and where do you have family, educational, or personal ties

I'm from Oklahoma and went to OU for my undergrad. I've got connections in the Oil and Gas industry here, however, I'm kind of looking for something new.

Law school hiring is insanely regional, and law school is not the time to "try something new," unless that "something new" is going to a top school and working for a large NYC firm. Out of all the schools you're admitted to, the only one that makes sense if OU.

rad lulz wrote:

alle0415 wrote:

rad lulz wrote:Where are you from and where do you have family, educational, or personal ties

I'm from Oklahoma and went to OU for my undergrad. I've got connections in the Oil and Gas industry here, however, I'm kind of looking for something new.

Law school hiring is insanely regional, and law school is not the time to "try something new," unless that "something new" is going to a top school and working for a large NYC firm. Out of all the schools you're admitted to, the only one that makes sense if OU.

This is good advice.

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alle0415 wrote:

rad lulz wrote:

alle0415 wrote:

rad lulz wrote:Where are you from and where do you have family, educational, or personal ties

I'm from Oklahoma and went to OU for my undergrad. I've got connections in the Oil and Gas industry here, however, I'm kind of looking for something new.

Law school hiring is insanely regional, and law school is not the time to "try something new," unless that "something new" is going to a top school and working for a large NYC firm. Out of all the schools you're admitted to, the only one that makes sense if OU.

I should have been more specific when I said "I'm kind of looking for something new". What I really mean is, I've been in Oklahoma my entire life, and I'm not willing to commit to being here for the rest of it (I realize that's where going to OU will leave me). Also, OU has been less generous with scholarships than other schools with better rankings/job placement. I realize wherever I choose to go will be the general area that I'm going to be the rest of my life. Unlike many on here, my interest is not a big NYC firm, but it's practicing the type of law that I find to be fulfilling (I don't know which type that is yet) in a place where I will be able to find a decent job. By decent, I mean not struggling to take care of loans after I graduate. I'm not sure this changes your answers at all. I appreciate the help, though.

The job market is so tight that it can be extremely hard to get jobs in a region you don't have ties from even if you go to the regional school. If you don't want to go to OU, go move somewhere for a couple years, get a job there, and then go to school there.

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alle0415 wrote:Thanks for the help, everyone! I'm going to talk to my law connections here and find out reputation for OU vs. Baylor in Oklahoma. Baylor has a higher job placement and has offered me a better deal as of now. I know it's miserable there, but if I could go there and still put my Oklahoma connections to use, then it's worth considering.

How about SMU? Although really I think it's OU or T14 or move someplace else to establish ties then apply to that regional powerhouse or just don't go to law school.

Btw you can always retake, nobody simply has to go to law school no matter what.

alle0415 wrote:I have been accepted to U of Wash tonight. I am assuming IF I get any money, it will be minimal. I have also been admitted at Arizona(hoping for some money), Wake Forest ($), Illinois($), Baylor ($), University of Oklahoma (In-state, $). I'm also waiting to hear back from a few other schools soon (Bama, AState,WUSTL, UT, Colorado). Retaking is not an option.. please don't tell me to, because I already regret not doing it when I had the chance. Am I better off going to U of Wash close to sticker, or one of these other schools?

Story? This doesn't make sense. How can you no longer have the chance?

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If you haven't taken it 3 times yet (and even if you have), then you can, and should, retake.

Also reputation != jobs

alle0415 wrote:

Elston Gunn wrote:

alle0415 wrote:I have been accepted to U of Wash tonight. I am assuming IF I get any money, it will be minimal. I have also been admitted at Arizona(hoping for some money), Wake Forest ($), Illinois($), Baylor ($), University of Oklahoma (In-state, $). I'm also waiting to hear back from a few other schools soon (Bama, AState,WUSTL, UT, Colorado). Retaking is not an option.. please don't tell me to, because I already regret not doing it when I had the chance. Am I better off going to U of Wash close to sticker, or one of these other schools?

Story? This doesn't make sense. How can you no longer have the chance?

I took it in June, and decided 163 was good enough. I wish I would have taken it again in October, because I think I could have done a lot better. I am wanting to start law school this upcoming fall, so I've missed my chance. I don't want to postpone it, because the job I have right now isn't permanent, and my parents are willing to help me out a little bit if I go now. So, financially, it's the best decision for me.

Also, I didn't apply to SMU because their job placement is nothing compared to Baylor's. They may get more top firms, but that's not what I'm worried about. Also, I've heard from a District Judge I know in Oklahoma and an Attorney at a large corporate firm that Baylor has an excellent reputation here.

I wanted to go to school last year because I'm super old and my job sucks but I decided that instead of the Houston's and Hastings' of the world I deserved it to myself to try and do better, even if just a couple of points for scholarship money. I've taken the test twice since then and this cycle I'm in at the lower T14 and top 20 schools with phatty cash. You can certainly put off for a cycle and retake. Retake June and see what happens and then maybe also retake October. That's what I did and it is one of the best decisions I have ever made.

ndirish2010 wrote:If you haven't taken it 3 times yet (and even if you have), then you can, and should, retake.

+1

OP, with a 3.7, you could be going to a T14 with a 170+. Why limit yourself like that?

alle0415 wrote:I took it in June, and decided 163 was good enough. I wish I would have taken it again in October, because I think I could have done a lot better. I am wanting to start law school this upcoming fall, so I've missed my chance. I don't want to postpone it, because the job I have right now isn't permanent, and my parents are willing to help me out a little bit if I go now. So, financially, it's the best decision for me.

Also, I didn't apply to SMU because their job placement is nothing compared to Baylor's. They may get more top firms, but that's not what I'm worried about. Also, I've heard from a District Judge I know in Oklahoma and an Attorney at a large corporate firm that Baylor has an excellent reputation here.

You can sign up to take it this June (start studying now!) and at least use your new score to get in off the waitlist somewhere or to see if you can get some more scholarship $$$. If you really blow it out of the park, you will probably want to wait a year and reapply. But even if you add a couple points, that could be worth thousands of dollars in scholarship $$.

What is it with the epidemic of parents of TLSers who are only willing to help pay for law school if their off-spring start this year??

Lastly, we need a PSA in this sub-forum that says that a judge or a partner in a law firm or whoever who tells you that a school has a good reputation or that they hire from that school or that the students produced by the school are high quality does not mean either (1) that the judge or partner regularly hires from that school or (2) that employment outcomes are good from that school. There are several reasons why this type of evidence is useless. First, it is anecdotal. The statistics we have that tell us that only 70% of Baylor's recent graduates are employed in full-time long-term legal jobs are much more useful. Second, any judge or partner at a law firm is going to tell a prospective student that even a dung heap law school is a "fine institution" and "produces high quality lawyers" because they want to be nice and are still mired in the outdated boomer mentality that higher education will lead to a stable middle-class lifestyle. Third, when they say they hire from the school, they frequently mean that perhaps once every three years they take one student or something like that....or they are referring to before the recession when they used to take multiple students fro that school. Now when you look at who they hire, it is usually 90% top law schools or top-of-the-class from strong regionals. People who are currently hiring partners or judges went to law school a long time ago in a good job market. They don't comprehend what it is like out there right now. Law school costs way way more than it did for them (my mom went in the mid-1980s for what in 2012 dollars is $12K) and it offers way shittier options. They don't realize this and they think they are doing good by encouraging you to attend when they are not.....forgive them for they know not what they do...

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somewhatwayward wrote:
You can sign up to take it this June (start studying now!) and at least use your new score to get in off the waitlist somewhere or to see if you can get some more scholarship $$$. If you really blow it out of the park, you will probably want to wait a year and reapply. But even if you add a couple points, that could be worth thousands of dollars in scholarship $$.

This is solid advice. OP is undoubtedly capable of breaking 170 with a bit more practice, and I'm inclined to agree that T14 next cycle is a much better option than any of the schools mentioned.

You should seriously consider Arizona. Get out of this TLS bubble and try to take everybody's opinion with a grain of salt (mine included). If you go onto law school transparency you'll see that Arizona has about a 75% employment score, where UW is about a 50% score. I'm at Arizona and I love it here (believe it or not, it matters). Small class sizes (120 1L's) and good employment prospects. You won't be in a big firm (which it doesn't seem like you want), but you have a good chance at finding work in Arizona and a decent shot at work throughout the west, generally (CA's a whole different animal). Seriously consider UA and PM me if you have any specific questions. Also, Arizona is literally the only state that allows you to take the bar in February of your third year (major bonus), giving you the chance to take OK's bar later that year if you wanna go back. Good luck sifting through everything!

Greatest,Ever wrote:You should seriously consider Arizona. Get out of this TLS bubble and try to take everybody's opinion with a grain of salt (mine included). If you go onto law school transparency you'll see that Arizona has about a 75% employment score, where UW is about a 50% score. I'm at Arizona and I love it here (believe it or not, it matters). Small class sizes (120 1L's) and good employment prospects. You won't be in a big firm (which it doesn't seem like you want), but you have a good chance at finding work in Arizona and a decent shot at work throughout the west, generally (CA's a whole different animal). Seriously consider UA and PM me if you have any specific questions. Also, Arizona is literally the only state that allows you to take the bar in February of your third year (major bonus), giving you the chance to take OK's bar later that year if you wanna go back. Good luck sifting through everything!

Picking random regionals in small markets where you don't have ties seems like a recipe for unemployment to me.

Greatest,Ever wrote:You should seriously consider Arizona. Get out of this TLS bubble and try to take everybody's opinion with a grain of salt (mine included). If you go onto law school transparency you'll see that Arizona has about a 75% employment score, where UW is about a 50% score. I'm at Arizona and I love it here (believe it or not, it matters). Small class sizes (120 1L's) and good employment prospects. You won't be in a big firm (which it doesn't seem like you want), but you have a good chance at finding work in Arizona and a decent shot at work throughout the west, generally (CA's a whole different animal). Seriously consider UA and PM me if you have any specific questions. Also, Arizona is literally the only state that allows you to take the bar in February of your third year (major bonus), giving you the chance to take OK's bar later that year if you wanna go back. Good luck sifting through everything!

You sound like you work in the UA admissions office. Everything you said sucks. The employment stuff sucks, a lot, but because it would take a long time to explain why, I'll leave it. I will say that the bolded is pretty dumb. At my school, you can graduate in 2 1/2 years and certainly take the Feb bar. You get the added bonus of taking it while not paying tuition.

BigZuck wrote:

Greatest,Ever wrote:You should seriously consider Arizona. Get out of this TLS bubble and try to take everybody's opinion with a grain of salt (mine included). If you go onto law school transparency you'll see that Arizona has about a 75% employment score, where UW is about a 50% score. I'm at Arizona and I love it here (believe it or not, it matters). Small class sizes (120 1L's) and good employment prospects. You won't be in a big firm (which it doesn't seem like you want), but you have a good chance at finding work in Arizona and a decent shot at work throughout the west, generally (CA's a whole different animal). Seriously consider UA and PM me if you have any specific questions. Also, Arizona is literally the only state that allows you to take the bar in February of your third year (major bonus), giving you the chance to take OK's bar later that year if you wanna go back. Good luck sifting through everything!

Picking random regionals in small markets where you don't have ties seems like a recipe for unemployment to me.

This sucks too. Going to regionals is a "tie" because the locals will not consider you a flight risk. This assumes you come up with a probable story about why X state, but if you are clever enough to get into UA then you can hack it. Besides, you why X story is completely corroborated by the fact you just dropped 100k and three years of your life earning a degree that only plays well in X state.

Going to Vandy is not a full-proof "tie" to TN because lots of people go to Vandy with a desire to work elsewhere. No one goes to UA with the intention of working in Portland. I go to school in another state out west, no ties, have done fine. I'm "one of the guys" cuz I went to CU, just like them. Same for Arizona.

Which all goes to say-- retake your LSAT.