maryland v temple v american Forum

[badnewsbears]

I want to be in the mid-atlantic region. My preferred location is DC, but I understand how difficult that is. I know little to nothing about living in Philly or Baltimore, but a good job is more important then where I end up living.

1- Do not have a definitive idea of which area of law will appeal most to me. Would love to end up in a government regulatory field, but am undecided on the specifics.

2- Background in Industrial Engineering, have been working for 2 years, but the work experience has just reinforced my desire to be a lawyer.

3- Have free housing in NOVA along the orange line.

4- Fortunate circumstances would make the total cost to me at all options about 10-20k/yr

5- No pre-existing professional legal ties, but most friends/social circles revolve around New York.

6- Waiting to hear back from George Mason.

Advice?

[cahwc12]

If someone were to re-rank the top 100 USNWR law schools according to something resembling the relative value of each degree, American would perhaps have the lowest spot (or tie for 99th with Pepperdine). Under no circumstances will that school present you with a rational investment. Here's a good blog post outlining how American operates. Even among questionable law school practices, American takes the cake and the plate and table it was sitting on before foreclosing on the bakery.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=maryland
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=temple
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=gmu
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=american


Will you have resident tuition at these schools (maryland, temple, gmu)?

What are the "circumstances' allowing you to keep the total cost to 10-20k/yr? Are your parents subsidizing the cost for you? Do you have a bunch of money saved up?

Why did your 2 years WE in IE reinforce your desire to be a lawyer? Did you do any work related to the legal field or work with lawyers in any capacity?

How much did you prepare for your 162 LSAT? Do you have the desire/capacity/ability to retake and score higher?

The answers to these questions will help other people give you better advice. Retake is always a great option, but for splitters and especially at these schools, it may not translate into the kind of aid that represents enough value to make attending any of these schools a rational decision.

[badnewsbears]

If someone were to re-rank the top 100 USNWR law schools according to something resembling the relative value of each degree, American would perhaps have the lowest spot (or tie for 99th with Pepperdine). Under no circumstances will that school present you with a rational investment. Here's a good blog post outlining how American operates. Even among questionable law school practices, American takes the cake and the plate and table it was sitting on before foreclosing on the bakery.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=maryland
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=temple
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=gmu
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=american


Will you have resident tuition at these schools (maryland, temple, gmu)?

What are the "circumstances' allowing you to keep the total cost to 10-20k/yr? Are your parents subsidizing the cost for you? Do you have a bunch of money saved up?

Why did your 2 years WE in IE reinforce your desire to be a lawyer? Did you do any work related to the legal field or work with lawyers in any capacity?

How much did you prepare for your 162 LSAT? Do you have the desire/capacity/ability to retake and score higher?

The answers to these questions will help other people give you better advice. Retake is always a great option, but for splitters and especially at these schools, it may not translate into the kind of aid that represents enough value to make attending any of these schools a rational decision.

-instate in VA
-parents will help
-I had a feeling of wanting to go to law school immediately after college (had sat in on classes, worked for a lawyer over a summer), but decided to give engineering a shot first (and to save up money). I'm good at it, it's just not for me.
-I prepared a lot. Long story short, I have retaken and done worse. Yes, there were "reasons" for that, but it is still on me. I can't take that risk again.

Without insurmountable debt, you still think that all these schools are an irrational investment? I'm not banking on immediately making 6 figures and living an idealized life. This isn't a shortcut to money for me, it is what I want to do. I could launch into a philosophical rant as to why I want to be a lawyer, but I'm sure you've heard it all. You'll just have to take my word for it. Given that it is what I want to do, and what I am currently doing is what I do not want to do, wouldn't attending one of these reputable regional schools be the rational decision?

[052220151]

If someone were to re-rank the top 100 USNWR law schools according to something resembling the relative value of each degree, American would perhaps have the lowest spot (or tie for 99th with Pepperdine). Under no circumstances will that school present you with a rational investment. Here's a good blog post outlining how American operates. Even among questionable law school practices, American takes the cake and the plate and table it was sitting on before foreclosing on the bakery.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=maryland
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=temple
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=gmu
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=american


Will you have resident tuition at these schools (maryland, temple, gmu)?

What are the "circumstances' allowing you to keep the total cost to 10-20k/yr? Are your parents subsidizing the cost for you? Do you have a bunch of money saved up?

Why did your 2 years WE in IE reinforce your desire to be a lawyer? Did you do any work related to the legal field or work with lawyers in any capacity?

How much did you prepare for your 162 LSAT? Do you have the desire/capacity/ability to retake and score higher?

The answers to these questions will help other people give you better advice. Retake is always a great option, but for splitters and especially at these schools, it may not translate into the kind of aid that represents enough value to make attending any of these schools a rational decision.

-instate in VA
-parents will help
-I had a feeling of wanting to go to law school immediately after college (had sat in on classes, worked for a lawyer over a summer), but decided to give engineering a shot first (and to save up money). I'm good at it, it's just not for me.
-I prepared a lot. Long story short, I have retaken and done worse. Yes, there were "reasons" for that, but it is still on me. I can't take that risk again.

Without insurmountable debt, you still think that all these schools are an irrational investment? I'm not banking on immediately making 6 figures and living an idealized life. This isn't a shortcut to money for me, it is what I want to do. I could launch into a philosophical rant as to why I want to be a lawyer, but I'm sure you've heard it all. You'll just have to take my word for it. Given that it is what I want to do, and what I am currently doing is what I do not want to do, wouldn't attending one of these reputable regional schools be the rational decision?

If you refuse to take the LSAT, pray that you get into George Mason. If you don't get into George Mason, move to Maryland and establish residency, then enroll at Maryland. Really, you should retake though.

[tony2167]

I'm not sure why "Mason or bust" would be the right answer. Their employment numbers aren't overwhelming by any metric and they trail Temple in terms of big law placement and federal clerkships. Add to that that VA has 4 T1 law schools (and U of Richmond, which has placement stats entirely comparable to GMU) and not a single major law market other than DC, and I'm not sure going to school in VA is such a great idea. And I say that as a VA resident who has been accepted to all of the schools OP mentions (save for Temple, still waiting). Given the options I think Temple wins out in this case.

For the love of God don't go to American.

[romothesavior]

cawhc is right... these schools are not great options. American is almost universally a bad one, and Temple/Maryland are really only appropriate for residents with ties to their markets. They're decent regionals, nothing more, and I'd be hesitant about moving to those cities and trying to make it with one of those degrees.

Where are you actually from?

[badnewsbears]

cawhc is right... these schools are not great options. American is almost universally a bad one, and Temple/Maryland are really only appropriate for residents with ties to their markets. They're decent regionals, nothing more, and I'd be hesitant about moving to those cities and trying to make it with one of those degrees.

Where are you actually from?

I'm from upstate new york, residency changed to VA after college, and job has me currently assigned in CT (I will be returning to VA shortly). The only legal connection I have so far, is in Albany NY. Friends currently in other law schools don't really count, do they.

3 years isn't enough time to build a network that could be useful after graduation? It's not like I'd be leaving town for internships etc. Wherever I go, I will be fully committed to.

[BigZuck]

If getting a good job is so important to you then why are you looking at these schools? The list of schools that give you a reasonable chance at a good legal job is quite small and none of these schools are on it.

If you want a good job then retake or don't go.

[BmoreOrLess]

3 years isn't enough time to build a network that could be useful after graduation? It's not like I'd be leaving town for internships etc. Wherever I go, I will be fully committed to.

I can only really speak to how it will be from Maryland in general (I'm a 0L, but have lived here for the past 3 years and know people in legal, finance, and real estate jobs at both small and bigger firms here so I have a good idea of general hiring/culture stuff). Ultimately you're going to run into problems with Baltimore since you are not from here. It is a surprisingly insular city, especially in an elitist profession like law. How everyone connects to their high school here (usually private) is quite bizarre, and the social/professional circles can be tough to crack due to it. If you ask someone from Baltimore where they went to school they will respond with their high school, not their university. Once you get outside of Baltimore, Maryland is similar to the south, where I'd imagine there is going to be a lot of "good ol boy" nonsense.

Additionally, I don't think its fair to say that Maryland is the clear top dog for the legal market here. You'll have a lot of T14's wanting to come back home (kids here are huge homers) and you're going to get stiff competition from University of Baltimore grads. Many of the lawyers here went to Baltimore, so you're going to have to navigate some "why Maryland instead of Baltimore?" questions.

[HeavenWood]

If you refuse to retake the LSAT, since you'll be taking on minimal debt, wait on Mason and pick whatever's cheaper between Mason and American, provided that going in, you're willing to accept that your chances of graduating with high-paying and/or prestigious (much less meaningful) legal employment are slim. If the bolded bothers you (and it should), retake or don't go.

[somewhatwayward]

^
NO, DO NOT PICK AMERICAN IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. NOT EVEN FOR FREE.

American is probably the biggest ripoff in the T1. It has worse employment numbers than a lot of T4 schools, which you could go to for free with a 162. I think UBalt for free is better than American at any price other than free, and honestly it might even be better than American for free bc of its loyal alumni network that someone mentioned. You'd definitely be stuck in Baltimore, though.

American lures people in with its T1 preftige but delivers nothing....they had 35% employment for the c/o 2011, which is abysmal....it is like rolling a die and if either a 1 or 2 come up, you've got a job (prob not a good one), and anything else, you lose your 200K.

Honestly your engineering job probably pays more and is more interesting and less stressful than the jobs the average grads of these schools have. But if you must go, do whatever is cheapest out of Maryland, GMU, or Temple (establish residency for MD and T to lessen the cost).

Also, there is nothing wrong with retaking and getting a worse score. Schools are so desperate to maintain their medians that they will just take the highest. Don't let fear of scoring lower prevent you from a retake.