UT versus Bama? Forum

[jenesaislaw]

Yes, you said that after the fact. I was addressing, "If you want to be a lawyer I vote Texas."

[BigZuck]

Yes, you said that after the fact. I was addressing, "If you want to be a lawyer I vote Texas."

And I said desirable employment outcomes when I first responded to you. Your own website says Texas wins out here handily. What the OP wants is good hours in midlaw, not any old small law (and I'm guessing definitely not Alabama small law but I could be wrong there).

Also the part I bolded when I quoted you on my last post you misspoke, correct? Because it contradicted your own website. Unless you have some new data that gives UT a higher employment score.

Finally, now that you know that the OP wants IP are you still voting Alabama? I'm guessing the OP would appreciate your response more than us randos.

[kuttlefish]

All snark aside, now that OP says IP I think it's got to be Texas if he's choosing between these two. Wouldn't there be many more opportunities for IP in Texas versus Alabama?

FWIW I think Mobile has a well-regarded biotech industry. If the OP had a chemistry/biology degree and was interested in that kind of IP law it wouldn't be so cut-and-dry. But he doesn't, so I'll shut up now.

[emkay625]

Where else have you applied? If you haven't done so, you need to throw a few apps out to schools between 14 and 25. UT will be more likely to negotiate if you have multiple scholarship offers.

[BruceWayne]

This is an incredibly hard decision based off of the info given. Because you said you qualify for IP I would lean towards Bama (slightly). And also because you have a family. You just can't afford to take on six figure debt as a (I think) 30+ year old with a family. And, contrary, to what people are making it seem, Texas simply doesn't have this big national appeal to employers unless you are at the very top of your class. No schools do except HYS. I will say this though. Because of how in demand IP is, either of these schools will have more national reach than they normally would should you get good grades. Bama will take you to any Southern market with good grades. And with very good ones and IP eligibility other markets will open up too. Make sure to become patent bar eligible ASAP. That will also boost your employment prospects. With those mouths to feed keep the debt low and try to summer at an IP firm in Texas or Atlanta.

[romothesavior]

OP, I do think you need to do a little more research as to the job market. Not sure what these phantom, non-big law 120k jobs are. If you're going to do IP and you want to make 6-figures, biglaw is by far the most likely and best route.

Assuming you lack ties to Alabama, I'd vote Texas, but you were wise to retake and try to negotiate for more scholarship dough.

[BigZuck]

This is an incredibly hard decision based off of the info given. Because you said you qualify for IP I would lean towards Bama (slightly). And also because you have a family. You just can't afford to take on six figure debt as a (I think) 30+ year old with a family. And, contrary, to what people are making it seem, Texas simply doesn't have this big national appeal to employers unless you are at the very top of your class. No schools do except HYS. I will say this though. Because of how in demand IP is, either of these schools will have more national reach than they normally would should you get good grades. Bama will take you to any Southern market with good grades. And with very good ones and IP eligibility other markets will open up too. Make sure to become patent bar eligible ASAP. That will also boost your employment prospects. With those mouths to feed keep the debt low and try to summer at an IP firm in Texas or Atlanta.

So if you were at, say, Duke and were ranked at the very bottom of the top 1/3 of your class you would be doomed to a job in the southeast? You would not be able to find a job in New York, California, etc. even with convincing ties?

Do you have proof for this assertion?

[jstr00az]

How are you graduating with that little debt from these schools, especially considering there are multiple mouths to feed? I think you're looking at at least 150K plus interest at UT and 45K plus interest at Alabama.

Also agreed that you won't get 120K midlaw with resonable hours, especially not right out of the gate. If you want to be a lawyer I vote Texas. If you want to be a family man I vote don't go to law school at all.

I'm sorry I should have clarified. IP Law. And I don't mind working 60-70 hour weeks, but it would definitely be a concern if it was more than that consistently.

You do realize what 60 a week MEANS. It means that you are at work 10 hours a day - 8 to 6 IN THE OFFICE - 6 days a week. You will be doing that ALL THE TIME. And do you know what IP law is? Do you really think there are family friendly IP firms laid out before in you Alabama?

Go onto the web in key cities in Alabama and count up the number of firms that ACTUALLY DO Intellectual Property Law. I'd guess there are may be a half dozen, at most. Then look at how many lawyers they have. We are talking about an incredibly small niche.

You will not be making $120k a year out of Alabama or Texas unless you are incredibly lucky.

Don't go to law school. You don't know what it means. You should be good to your family and find something else to do.

[jstr00az]

This is an incredibly hard decision based off of the info given. Because you said you qualify for IP I would lean towards Bama (slightly). And also because you have a family. You just can't afford to take on six figure debt as a (I think) 30+ year old with a family. And, contrary, to what people are making it seem, Texas simply doesn't have this big national appeal to employers unless you are at the very top of your class. No schools do except HYS. I will say this though. Because of how in demand IP is, either of these schools will have more national reach than they normally would should you get good grades. Bama will take you to any Southern market with good grades. And with very good ones and IP eligibility other markets will open up too. Make sure to become patent bar eligible ASAP. That will also boost your employment prospects. With those mouths to feed keep the debt low and try to summer at an IP firm in Texas or Atlanta.

So if you were at, say, Duke and were ranked at the very bottom of the top 1/3 of your class you would be doomed to a job in the southeast? You would not be able to find a job in New York, California, etc. even with convincing ties?

Do you have proof for this assertion?

I'm saying if you are ranked at the bottom 1/3rd of your class at Duke, you are screwed. Look at the employment statistics. You probably aren't "doomed" to a job in the southeast (whatever that means, as it seems we get northerners by the droves down here all the time). It means that you can go where you want to go, but you won't be a lawyer - you will be an ex-law student with enormous debt.

[BigZuck]

This is an incredibly hard decision based off of the info given. Because you said you qualify for IP I would lean towards Bama (slightly). And also because you have a family. You just can't afford to take on six figure debt as a (I think) 30+ year old with a family. And, contrary, to what people are making it seem, Texas simply doesn't have this big national appeal to employers unless you are at the very top of your class. No schools do except HYS. I will say this though. Because of how in demand IP is, either of these schools will have more national reach than they normally would should you get good grades. Bama will take you to any Southern market with good grades. And with very good ones and IP eligibility other markets will open up too. Make sure to become patent bar eligible ASAP. That will also boost your employment prospects. With those mouths to feed keep the debt low and try to summer at an IP firm in Texas or Atlanta.

So if you were at, say, Duke and were ranked at the very bottom of the top 1/3 of your class you would be doomed to a job in the southeast? You would not be able to find a job in New York, California, etc. even with convincing ties?

Do you have proof for this assertion?

I'm saying if you are ranked at the bottom 1/3rd of your class at Duke, you are screwed. Look at the employment statistics. You probably aren't "doomed" to a job in the southeast (whatever that means, as it seems we get northerners by the droves down here all the time). It means that you can go where you want to go, but you won't be a lawyer - you will be an ex-law student with enormous debt.

Are you BruceWayne's alt? Also, reading comprehension brobro: I said at the bottom of the top third of the class. Meaning not top 10%, not top 25%, but barely making it into the top 33%. Not the bottom third of the class. Huge difference.

[BigZuck]

ITT: posters make points based off of poor reading comprehension, get called on it and asked to clarify, then flee the thread entirely.

[Grazzhoppa]

texas.

[PDaddy]

This entire dialogue is ridiculous; OP wants IP Law, is from Texas, is a "serious family man" with a wife who is in grad school in Texas, has been admitted to U-Texas and 'Bama (albeit with a full ride at the latter), but thinks he won't need biglaw to achieve his goals.

OP mentions nothing about actually wanting to practice in Birmingham, etc.

Texas is such a huge leap in prestige, and market and employment prospects (Austin, Dallas and Houston) that it would be almost silly to even consider 'Bama.

OP gets it right when he says he will try to leverage 'Bama against UT for more dough, because that's all 'Bama will be worth in the equation.

The full ride notwithstanding, OP is still going to incurr about $50K in debt on the conservative end; if Texas even gives up $10-15K per year, it's going to be worth turning down 'Bama.

One tactic he might want to use is offering to defer for a year at UT in exchange for a 50% ride. I would NOT go to 'Bama.

[PDaddy]

Where else have you applied? If you haven't done so, you need to throw a few apps out to schools between 14 and 25. UT will be more likely to negotiate if you have multiple scholarship offers.

This is also a great answer.

[cahwc12]

This entire dialogue is ridiculous; OP wants IP Law, is from Texas, is a "serious family man" with a wife who is in grad school in Texas, has been admitted to U-Texas and 'Bama (albeit with a full ride at the latter), but thinks he won't need biglaw to achieve his goals.

OP mentions nothing about actually wanting to practice in Birmingham, etc.

Texas is such a huge leap in prestige, and market and employment prospects (Austin, Dallas and Houston) that it would be almost silly to even consider 'Bama.

OP gets it right when he says he will try to leverage 'Bama against UT for more dough, because that's all 'Bama will be worth in the equation.

The full ride notwithstanding, OP is still going to incurr about $50K in debt on the conservative end; if Texas even gives up $10-15K per year, it's going to be worth turning down 'Bama.

One tactic he might want to use is offering to defer for a year at UT in exchange for a 50% ride. I would NOT go to 'Bama.

Why would they do this? (genuine curiosity)