UVA $$ vs. Berkeley Forum

[kfischm1]

Is turning down UVA with $30,000/year scholarship for Berkeley at sticker ever justified? I know Berkeley will consider scholarship offers from other T-14 schools, but based on last year's threads, it doesn't sound like they are very liberal about matching those offers. I've always dreamed about going to Berkeley, but I'm having a hard time justifying taking on the extra debt when both schools seem to offer similar career prospects.

[TripTrip]

Is turning down UVA with $30,000/year scholarship for Berkeley at sticker ever justified?

I'm going to go with no unless you've got strong Cali connections.

You should try to leverage at Berkeley like you said though.

[nebula666]

Do you want to work in CA?

If yes, Berkeley. If not, UVA. Try to negotiate the scholarship either way, obviously.

[jenesaislaw]

What is your total estimated cost of attendance at both, including interest, for when you owe your first payment? That's the first question. My guess is that you're in the 280-300k range at Berkeley, and 150-160k range at UVA (assuming out of state all 3 years).

Another question is where you want to work and where you have legitimate ties.

All told, it would be tough to turn down UVA for Berkeley in this situation, and I would understand even turning UVA down.

It is a lot of debt either way, but meaningfully more at Berkeley.

[005618502]

Do you want to work in CA?

If yes, Berkeley. If not, UVA. Try to negotiate the scholarship either way, obviously.

Is this a joke? HELL NO you shouldnt pay sticker at Berk when you could go to UVA for (more than) 100k less. UVA will get you back to CA as long as your ties are strong. If you have no ties... well I dont know in that case.

I think this is an easy choice if Berkeley doesnt match

[NoodleyOne]

Is turning down UVA with $30,000/year scholarship for Berkeley at sticker ever justified? I know Berkeley will consider scholarship offers from other T-14 schools, but based on last year's threads, it doesn't sound like they are very liberal about matching those offers. I've always dreamed about going to Berkeley, but I'm having a hard time justifying taking on the extra debt when both schools seem to offer similar career prospects.

Jesus... hell no is it justified. You're talking about turning down 90k for peer schools with almost identical job placement. That would be an awful decision.

[$peppercorn]

Absolutely not. Not to mention the tuition and cost of living at Berkely would be insane. Take UVA.

[RSterling]

Not to hijack this thread, but I'm facings this situation as well with 75k at UVA. I'm leaning really heavily toward UVA barring any matching offer from Berkeley (and even then the CoA at Berk is much higher). I'd like to get back to the West Coast, especially the bay area. I'm curious as to what y'all think of my ties: my family is from the Reno area (about 3 hour drive from the bay area), and I went to undergrad on the west coast but not in California. Would I have a shot at getting back to the West Coast from UVA? Assume I'm around median to top 1/3.

[AbbeyRoadLaw]

Can't wait for rad lulz to come in with "retake."

[nebula666]

Do you want to work in CA?

If yes, Berkeley. If not, UVA. Try to negotiate the scholarship either way, obviously.

Is this a joke? HELL NO you shouldnt pay sticker at Berk when you could go to UVA for (more than) 100k less. UVA will get you back to CA as long as your ties are strong. If you have no ties... well I dont know in that case.

I think this is an easy choice if Berkeley doesnt match

My bad, I thought it said $30,000 total not per year. Definitely UVA then.

[Boggs]

Is turning down UVA with $30,000/year scholarship for Berkeley at sticker ever justified? I know Berkeley will consider scholarship offers from other T-14 schools, but based on last year's threads, it doesn't sound like they are very liberal about matching those offers. I've always dreamed about going to Berkeley, but I'm having a hard time justifying taking on the extra debt when both schools seem to offer similar career prospects.

It depends. I made a roughly similar decision to go to Berkeley. If the variables involved in your decision are only USNews ranking and $$, then going to Berkeley probably doesn't make sense. However, I would never counsel someone to make this decision on the basis of USNews and $$ alone. Your experience in law school will define the rest of your life, consider everything.

Since you've "always dreamed about going to Berkeley," I'd consider it. While UVA and Berk are "peers" in terms of USNews rankings, they're very different institutions. You should visit both. But ultimately you should weigh your motivations for law school, what kind of work you want to do, and what sort of people you want to be around while studying the law (you'll learn more from your peers than any other source).

That said, do not underestimate the impact of debt. It's a big deal.

[Boggs]

Not to hijack this thread, but I'm facings this situation as well with 75k at UVA. I'm leaning really heavily toward UVA barring any matching offer from Berkeley (and even then the CoA at Berk is much higher). I'd like to get back to the West Coast, especially the bay area. I'm curious as to what y'all think of my ties: my family is from the Reno area (about 3 hour drive from the bay area), and I went to undergrad on the west coast but not in California. Would I have a shot at getting back to the West Coast from UVA? Assume I'm around median to top 1/3.

During OCI, the Bay Area did not strike me as a particularly insular market (compared to Seattle for example). However, most firms did want to hear a couple lines about growing up watching the Niners with my grandfather.

[NoodleyOne]

Is turning down UVA with $30,000/year scholarship for Berkeley at sticker ever justified? I know Berkeley will consider scholarship offers from other T-14 schools, but based on last year's threads, it doesn't sound like they are very liberal about matching those offers. I've always dreamed about going to Berkeley, but I'm having a hard time justifying taking on the extra debt when both schools seem to offer similar career prospects.

It depends. I made a roughly similar decision to go to Berkeley. If the variables involved in your decision are only USNews ranking and $$, then going to Berkeley probably doesn't make sense. However, I would never counsel someone to make this decision on the basis of USNews and $$ alone. Your experience in law school will define the rest of your life, consider everything.

Since you've "always dreamed about going to Berkeley," I'd consider it. While UVA and Berk are "peers" in terms of USNews rankings, they're very different institutions. You should visit both. But ultimately you should weigh your motivations for law school, what kind of work you want to do, and what sort of people you want to be around while studying the law (you'll learn more from your peers than any other source).

That said, do not underestimate the impact of debt. It's a big deal.

Yeah, just follow your heart.

[Law Sauce]

No question UVA. UVA will get you back to California for a lot less money. 90k is a ton of money for the same end result. How do you know that you wouldn't love UVA just as much as Cal? "I always wanted to go to x school" is not a valid factor because the feeling will wear off in like 2 months and because you have no idea what going to either one for LS would be like.

[Boggs]

Is turning down UVA with $30,000/year scholarship for Berkeley at sticker ever justified? I know Berkeley will consider scholarship offers from other T-14 schools, but based on last year's threads, it doesn't sound like they are very liberal about matching those offers. I've always dreamed about going to Berkeley, but I'm having a hard time justifying taking on the extra debt when both schools seem to offer similar career prospects.

It depends. I made a roughly similar decision to go to Berkeley. If the variables involved in your decision are only USNews ranking and $$, then going to Berkeley probably doesn't make sense. However, I would never counsel someone to make this decision on the basis of USNews and $$ alone. Your experience in law school will define the rest of your life, consider everything.

Since you've "always dreamed about going to Berkeley," I'd consider it. While UVA and Berk are "peers" in terms of USNews rankings, they're very different institutions. You should visit both. But ultimately you should weigh your motivations for law school, what kind of work you want to do, and what sort of people you want to be around while studying the law (you'll learn more from your peers than any other source).

That said, do not underestimate the impact of debt. It's a big deal.

Yeah, just follow your heart.

I sincerely wish you luck on the rest of your admissions cycle, 0L.

[Trout et al]

My vote is for UVA at this point.

[Rahviveh]

IF you absolutely want to stay in CA then I think Berkeley is defensible. I would take UVA personally because for me staying in CA is not more important than overall prospects/debt levels.

[NoodleyOne]

Is turning down UVA with $30,000/year scholarship for Berkeley at sticker ever justified? I know Berkeley will consider scholarship offers from other T-14 schools, but based on last year's threads, it doesn't sound like they are very liberal about matching those offers. I've always dreamed about going to Berkeley, but I'm having a hard time justifying taking on the extra debt when both schools seem to offer similar career prospects.

It depends. I made a roughly similar decision to go to Berkeley. If the variables involved in your decision are only USNews ranking and $$, then going to Berkeley probably doesn't make sense. However, I would never counsel someone to make this decision on the basis of USNews and $$ alone. Your experience in law school will define the rest of your life, consider everything.

Since you've "always dreamed about going to Berkeley," I'd consider it. While UVA and Berk are "peers" in terms of USNews rankings, they're very different institutions. You should visit both. But ultimately you should weigh your motivations for law school, what kind of work you want to do, and what sort of people you want to be around while studying the law (you'll learn more from your peers than any other source).

That said, do not underestimate the impact of debt. It's a big deal.

Yeah, just follow your heart.

I sincerely wish you luck on the rest of your admissions cycle, 0L.

BOLD COUNTER! I don't care what year you are, suggesting someone take 100k+ more debt for similar job prospects is fucking stupid.

[Boggs]

I sincerely wish you luck on the rest of your admissions cycle, 0L.

BOLD COUNTER! I don't care what year you are, suggesting someone take 100k+ more debt for similar job prospects is fucking stupid.

I agree. That would be a foolish suggestion. Nobody, however, has suggested that. Reading comprehension will improve over time. Good luck buddy.

[NoodleyOne]

I sincerely wish you luck on the rest of your admissions cycle, 0L.

BOLD COUNTER! I don't care what year you are, suggesting someone take 100k+ more debt for similar job prospects is fucking stupid.

I agree. That would be a foolish suggestion. Nobody, however, has suggested that. Reading comprehension will improve over time. Good luck buddy.

Telling him to consider bit to make you feel better for your own decision is probably more accurate.

[JamMasterJ]

I thought Berk tried to match schollies at all the T14 except NU? If they do that or close to it, and you have ties to CA, then Berk. If not, def UVA.

[Doorkeeper]

1) Negotiate with Berkeley. If they come close to matching, then go to Berkeley.
2) If they don't come close to matching, then go to UVA unless there is a very significant personal reason to go to Berkeley, such as your wife or husband being in San Fran.

[Boggs]

I sincerely wish you luck on the rest of your admissions cycle, 0L.

BOLD COUNTER! I don't care what year you are, suggesting someone take 100k+ more debt for similar job prospects is fucking stupid.

I agree. That would be a foolish suggestion. Nobody, however, has suggested that. Reading comprehension will improve over time. Good luck buddy.

Telling him to consider bit to make you feel better for your own decision is probably more accurate.

Though it's said misery loves company, encouraging someone to make the same mistake you did sounds like an alarming neurosis. I hope I wouldn't do that if I was operating under those circumstances.

I've been extraordinarily lucky when it comes to law school finances, but that happened after I made the decision to attend Boalt. While I can't know this to a certainty, I believe I would not regret my decision even if my financial situation hadn't changed.

[dproduct]

If not I'm mistaken... it's Berkeley's policy for admitted students to send them the merit offer from the school they would attend versus Berkeley. Send Berkeley the offer. This thread is much different if Berkeley offers you the same, or even slightly less. What if they come back with $25k per year? Right now you have peer schools, one at sticker and one with a 90k scholarship. That's not even a debate.

[JamMasterJ]

If not I'm mistaken... it's Berkeley's policy for admitted students to send them the merit offer from the school they would attend versus Berkeley. Send Berkeley the offer. This thread is much different if Berkeley offers you the same, or even slightly less. What if they come back with $25k per year? Right now you have peer schools, one at sticker and one with a 90k scholarship. That's not even a debate.

they try to match to "whichever offer you'd otherwise be taking" but it's not a 100% thing