Top Law Schools

I heard from all my top-most picks. Here are the options:

-American (in, no aid yet. Likely sticker or close to it)
-Northeastern (10k/year, 3k guaranteed summer stipend. "Good academic standing.")
-Stetson (half tuition/3 years. Must stay above 2.25, must not drop any classes.)
-Maine (8k/year. No word on stips yet, director of admissions just let me know in an email while setting up a time to sit in on a class.)
-Lewis and Clark (12k/year scholarship, provided I stay above
2.6)
-Loyola Chicago (waiting on aid)

Waiting to hear from:
-Southwestern

Feeling a little like the wind was knocked out of me. I thought I'd get at least half at Maine. Pretty sure y'all are going to blast me with "retake" in droves (which I'm considering for next year, if I can't make it work), but... is any of these options worth going for? Anyone have advice on clever negotiating? Anyone have anything good to say?

bre.kidman wrote:I heard from all my top-most picks. Here are the options:

-American (in, no aid yet. Likely sticker or close to it)
-Northeastern (10k/year, 3k guaranteed summer stipend. "Good academic standing.")
-Stetson (half tuition/3 years. Must stay above 2.25, must not drop any classes.)
-Maine (8k/year. No word on stips yet, director of admissions just let me know in an email while setting up a time to sit in on a class.)

Waiting to hear from:
-Loyola Chicago (where I did undergrad)
-Lewis & Clark
-Southwestern

Feeling a little like the wind was knocked out of me. I thought I'd get at least half at Maine. Pretty sure y'all are going to blast me with "retake" in droves (which I'm considering for next year, if I can't make it work), but... is any of these options worth going for? Anyone have advice on clever negotiating? Anyone have anything good to say?

It might be helpful if you provided total COA for each school and whether you have any debt assistance.

timbs4339 wrote:

bre.kidman wrote:I heard from all my top-most picks. Here are the options:

-American (in, no aid yet. Likely sticker or close to it)
-Northeastern (10k/year, 3k guaranteed summer stipend. "Good academic standing.")
-Stetson (half tuition/3 years. Must stay above 2.25, must not drop any classes.)
-Maine (8k/year. No word on stips yet, director of admissions just let me know in an email while setting up a time to sit in on a class.)

Waiting to hear from:
-Loyola Chicago (where I did undergrad)
-Lewis & Clark
-Southwestern

Feeling a little like the wind was knocked out of me. I thought I'd get at least half at Maine. Pretty sure y'all are going to blast me with "retake" in droves (which I'm considering for next year, if I can't make it work), but... is any of these options worth going for? Anyone have advice on clever negotiating? Anyone have anything good to say?

It might be helpful if you provided total COA for each school and whether you have any debt assistance.

Good point. American's total COA is listed at $70,204 at sticker. Northeastern lists total COA at $64,904, so that would be about $54,904/year. Stetson comes in at $55,800/year COA, so they would wind up being $37,876. Maine's total COA is at about 37K at sticker, so it would cost about 29k per year in total. Funny how that works out.

I do have some degree of debt assistance from my parents, but I don't want to rely too heavily on that because... I'm an adult.

Retake. None of these are good options. You're in the mid-160's, a few more points and you can start looking at much better schools

These are all terrible options. Dedicate yourself to studying the LSAT until scoring a 170 or better (preferably a 172 or better) is a very realistic goal.

bre.kidman wrote:

timbs4339 wrote:

bre.kidman wrote:I heard from all my top-most picks. Here are the options:

-American (in, no aid yet. Likely sticker or close to it)
-Northeastern (10k/year, 3k guaranteed summer stipend. "Good academic standing.")
-Stetson (half tuition/3 years. Must stay above 2.25, must not drop any classes.)
-Maine (8k/year. No word on stips yet, director of admissions just let me know in an email while setting up a time to sit in on a class.)

Waiting to hear from:
-Loyola Chicago (where I did undergrad)
-Lewis & Clark
-Southwestern

Feeling a little like the wind was knocked out of me. I thought I'd get at least half at Maine. Pretty sure y'all are going to blast me with "retake" in droves (which I'm considering for next year, if I can't make it work), but... is any of these options worth going for? Anyone have advice on clever negotiating? Anyone have anything good to say?

It might be helpful if you provided total COA for each school and whether you have any debt assistance.

Good point. American's total COA is listed at $70,204 at sticker. Northeastern lists total COA at $64,904, so that would be about $54,904/year. Stetson comes in at $55,800/year COA, so they would wind up being $37,876. Maine's total COA is at about 37K at sticker, so it would cost about 29k per year in total. Funny how that works out.

I do have some degree of debt assistance from my parents, but I don't want to rely too heavily on that because... I'm an adult.

Crap. This might be only an academic exercise since the expected total COA for these schools is much greater than the prospects coming out of them, but where do you have ties/where do you live now and can get in-state/what do you want to do? It's going to be difficult to negotiate with such a diverse list of schools, but I would start perhaps by trying to leverage Maine against Northeastern. Keep in mind it's very early and they won't be ready to seriously start shaving $ off for a few months.

timbs4339 wrote:

bre.kidman wrote:

timbs4339 wrote:

bre.kidman wrote:I heard from all my top-most picks. Here are the options:

-American (in, no aid yet. Likely sticker or close to it)
-Northeastern (10k/year, 3k guaranteed summer stipend. "Good academic standing.")
-Stetson (half tuition/3 years. Must stay above 2.25, must not drop any classes.)
-Maine (8k/year. No word on stips yet, director of admissions just let me know in an email while setting up a time to sit in on a class.)

Waiting to hear from:
-Loyola Chicago (where I did undergrad)
-Lewis & Clark
-Southwestern

Feeling a little like the wind was knocked out of me. I thought I'd get at least half at Maine. Pretty sure y'all are going to blast me with "retake" in droves (which I'm considering for next year, if I can't make it work), but... is any of these options worth going for? Anyone have advice on clever negotiating? Anyone have anything good to say?

It might be helpful if you provided total COA for each school and whether you have any debt assistance.

Good point. American's total COA is listed at $70,204 at sticker. Northeastern lists total COA at $64,904, so that would be about $54,904/year. Stetson comes in at $55,800/year COA, so they would wind up being $37,876. Maine's total COA is at about 37K at sticker, so it would cost about 29k per year in total. Funny how that works out.

I do have some degree of debt assistance from my parents, but I don't want to rely too heavily on that because... I'm an adult.

Crap. This might be only an academic exercise since the expected total COA for these schools is much greater than the prospects coming out of them, but where do you have ties/where do you live now and can get in-state/what do you want to do? It's going to be difficult to negotiate with such a diverse list of schools, but I would start perhaps by trying to leverage Maine against Northeastern. Keep in mind it's very early and they won't be ready to seriously start shaving $ off for a few months.

I'm in-state at Maine, which is why tuition goes down to 22K before the scholarship. Tuition at Maine would be 14K a year and I could probably live with family if need be... but I'm not sure "only" 42K in debt is a low enough figure to jump for. I want to do public interest--preferably victim's advocacy and/or refugee rights--and I have a family member who is a magistrate in Maine. Most of my family is in the Northeast. Do you think it would be worth giving Maine the list (in a month or two, after everything has come in) and asking if they can go higher? Or similar with Northeastern? I should probably note that I haven't done the PI supplemental scholarship apps for Northeastern or American yet, though I don't expect to be a competitive applicant in that regard.

Retake. With a 168+ will start opening some doors for you, 173ish, might get looks and NU. Don't settle for any of those other schools.

Get a job, work, save money, and start pounding the LSAT every free chance you get.

Definitely retake. You are a few questions away from changing things significantly. I went from a 2.95/162 and looking at University of Baltimore to $105k scholarship at GW and options throughout the T50 because I boosted my LSAT from a 162 to a 168. Now is not the time to be sitting on a 163 when you are so close to opening up so many doors with a 168+.

Going to American at sticker is absolutely insane

Retake.

If you live in Maine, keeping your COA low and going isn't a bad option.

I don't think Stetson is worth attending with any combination of GPA/LSAT and merit aid because they cap out far below what actually represents fair market value for the degree. Unless you have a personal in with a bay area firm, steer clear.

Why did you choose T3 schools from wide-ranging markets? What are your numbers that you aren't even applying to ranked schools?

Do you see yourself practicing in Maine, or Tampa, or Boston?

cahwc12 wrote:I don't think Stetson is worth attending with any combination of GPA/LSAT and merit aid because they cap out far below what actually represents fair market value for the degree. Unless you have a personal in with a bay area firm, steer clear.

Why did you choose T3 schools from wide-ranging markets? What are your numbers that you aren't even applying to ranked schools?

Do you see yourself practicing in Maine, or Tampa, or Boston?

I'm 163/2.8 and debt averse. My job is sapping the life out of me and I really wanted to move on with my life this year, but it's not looking good. My strategy was to pick schools that might give me money in places I wouldn't mind living. I hoped I'd get a full at a t3 school in a decent town but, now that THAT seems to have fallen through, I'm debating when to suck it up and retake. :-/

Ti Malice wrote:These are all terrible options. Dedicate yourself to studying the LSAT until scoring a 170 or better (preferably a 172 or better) is a very realistic goal.

I call bullshit! Maine isn't a terrible option, especially with OP being a resident of Maine, and if OP is cool with working locally.

bre.kidman wrote:

cahwc12 wrote:I don't think Stetson is worth attending with any combination of GPA/LSAT and merit aid because they cap out far below what actually represents fair market value for the degree. Unless you have a personal in with a bay area firm, steer clear.

Why did you choose T3 schools from wide-ranging markets? What are your numbers that you aren't even applying to ranked schools?

Do you see yourself practicing in Maine, or Tampa, or Boston?

I'm 163/2.8 and debt averse. My job is sapping the life out of me and I really wanted to move on with my life this year, but it's not looking good. My strategy was to pick schools that might give me money in places I wouldn't mind living. I hoped I'd get a full at a t3 school in a decent town but, now that THAT seems to have fallen through, I'm debating when to suck it up and retake. :-/

If you can get 168, you've got a great shot at WUSTL and Minn with a lot of aid. I still don't think it would be a reasonable investment though.

I'm at 168/3.4 and I'm going back to school for an EE degree.


If you don't mind staying in Maine, that sounds like your best bet BY FAR and if you meet them in person, etc, you may be able to leverage your other scholarships for a bit nicer aid package. I'd consult LSN and ask around.

cahwc12 wrote:

bre.kidman wrote:

cahwc12 wrote:I don't think Stetson is worth attending with any combination of GPA/LSAT and merit aid because they cap out far below what actually represents fair market value for the degree. Unless you have a personal in with a bay area firm, steer clear.

Why did you choose T3 schools from wide-ranging markets? What are your numbers that you aren't even applying to ranked schools?

Do you see yourself practicing in Maine, or Tampa, or Boston?

I'm 163/2.8 and debt averse. My job is sapping the life out of me and I really wanted to move on with my life this year, but it's not looking good. My strategy was to pick schools that might give me money in places I wouldn't mind living. I hoped I'd get a full at a t3 school in a decent town but, now that THAT seems to have fallen through, I'm debating when to suck it up and retake. :-/

If you can get 168, you've got a great shot at WUSTL and Minn with a lot of aid. I still don't think it would be a reasonable investment though.

I'm at 168/3.4 and I'm going back to school for an EE degree.


If you don't mind staying in Maine, that sounds like your best bet BY FAR and if you meet them in person, etc, you may be able to leverage your other scholarships for a bit nicer aid package. I'd consult LSN and ask around.

I didn't find much scholarship data on Maine, but I've scheduled a meeting with the director of admissions, walkthrough of the clinical program, and a sit-in on a civil procedure class for January. Maybe they'll have a better picture of this year's applicants by then and I'll magically land at the top. I'm hoping a well-placed comment (in said meeting) about my concerns over the financial considerations of attending vs. job prospects in the Maine market might gain me some headway. The quality of life in Maine is worth staying for, as far as I'm concerned... but $87,000 might be more debt than I'm willing to shoulder without a little more portability/earning potential.

I thought you were paying $8k/year total... $87,000 sounds far beyond the realm of reasonableness.

cahwc12 wrote:I thought you were paying $8k/year total... $87,000 sounds far beyond the realm of reasonableness.

+1

You are getting "blasted with retake" in droves because it is the most reasonable advice anyone can give you. A few more correct answers on each LSAT section will open up more doors for you. Work, save money, study the LSAT, apply next cycle..
5. ???
6. Profit.

If you are dead set on this cycle you could hammer out a better score in February and use that to negotiate I suppose.

cahwc12 wrote:I thought you were paying $8k/year total... $87,000 sounds far beyond the realm of reasonableness.

Nope. I GOT 8k/year. Tuition goes down to 14k with that, but there are still living expenses on top of that. Total COA will be 29k, based on their budget. I guess it could be 42k with just tuition, but that relies heavily on someone else supporting me.

So. February or June?

If you feel ready in February, take it then. Otherwise, study hard, get a long-term prep plan and crush it in June. There is no shame at all in applying with a score that late this cycle to schools that will just be grateful to have another strong applicant in a very weak pool.

You should look at what score might net you a full ride to Maine, if any... or what kind of aid cutoffs they have. That 2.8 hurts, but you can certainly do better than $87000 COA at Maine.

cahwc12 wrote:If you feel ready in February, take it then. Otherwise, study hard, get a long-term prep plan and crush it in June. There is no shame at all in applying with a score that late this cycle to schools that will just be grateful to have another strong applicant in a very weak pool.

You should look at what score might net you a full ride to Maine, if any... or what kind of aid cutoffs they have. That 2.8 hurts, but you can certainly do better than $87000 COA at Maine.

Do you think there's a tactful way to ask that? Or is it kind of taboo to discuss it with them directly? I know I'm supposed to be glowing with gratitude that I got in and everything, but I kind of want to lay it out like: "I'd really like to stay in Maine and practice here, but I'm concerned that the financial risk outweighs potential reward for a public interest career. I'm prepared to sit out another cycle to make that ratio more appealing. What kind of LSAT score would make me a more competitive scholarship candidate?"

bre.kidman wrote:

cahwc12 wrote:If you feel ready in February, take it then. Otherwise, study hard, get a long-term prep plan and crush it in June. There is no shame at all in applying with a score that late this cycle to schools that will just be grateful to have another strong applicant in a very weak pool.

You should look at what score might net you a full ride to Maine, if any... or what kind of aid cutoffs they have. That 2.8 hurts, but you can certainly do better than $87000 COA at Maine.

Do you think there's a tactful way to ask that? Or is it kind of taboo to discuss it with them directly? I know I'm supposed to be glowing with gratitude that I got in and everything, but I kind of want to lay it out like: "I'd really like to stay in Maine and practice here, but I'm concerned that the financial risk outweighs potential reward for a public interest career. I'm prepared to sit out another cycle to make that ratio more appealing. What kind of LSAT score would make me a more competitive scholarship candidate?"

That's the right idea, but a few suggestions. First throw out the public interest career stuff. They'll just come back with IBR forgiveness. Second, don't bring up the second part "I'm prepared to sit out another cycle...What kind of LSAT score..." until after a few negotiations. That stuff should only come out after they have given you a few no's. I had a lot of success negotiating a few times, so be prepared to keep asking. Let me know if you have any questions about the negotiation process, I'd be happy to help.

ETA: But again, you should really retake. Schools like Alabama will throw a ton of money at you once you get into the 167+ range and won't give two shits about your GPA. Even if you have no desire to go there it is a very nice bargaining chip.

He is already above Maine's 75th percentile so they may never give him more money based solely on an increased LSAT score. That GPA is going to continue to kill him at lots of places.

BmoreOrLess wrote:

bre.kidman wrote:

cahwc12 wrote:If you feel ready in February, take it then. Otherwise, study hard, get a long-term prep plan and crush it in June. There is no shame at all in applying with a score that late this cycle to schools that will just be grateful to have another strong applicant in a very weak pool.

You should look at what score might net you a full ride to Maine, if any... or what kind of aid cutoffs they have. That 2.8 hurts, but you can certainly do better than $87000 COA at Maine.

Do you think there's a tactful way to ask that? Or is it kind of taboo to discuss it with them directly? I know I'm supposed to be glowing with gratitude that I got in and everything, but I kind of want to lay it out like: "I'd really like to stay in Maine and practice here, but I'm concerned that the financial risk outweighs potential reward for a public interest career. I'm prepared to sit out another cycle to make that ratio more appealing. What kind of LSAT score would make me a more competitive scholarship candidate?"

That's the right idea, but a few suggestions. First throw out the public interest career stuff. They'll just come back with IBR forgiveness. Second, don't bring up the second part "I'm prepared to sit out another cycle...What kind of LSAT score..." until after a few negotiations. That stuff should only come out after they have given you a few no's. I had a lot of success negotiating a few times, so be prepared to keep asking. Let me know if you have any questions about the negotiation process, I'd be happy to help.

ETA: But again, you should really retake. Schools like Alabama will throw a ton of money at you once you get into the 167+ range and won't give two shits about your GPA. Even if you have no desire to go there it is a very nice bargaining chip.

I'm getting ready to do February because the overwhelming consensus is to retake, but I'd like to get a strategy in place to negotiate with Maine because, ultimately, I think I'd be happy there at the right dollar amount. Basically, I don't want T1 debt for a T3 degree. I'm wondering, though, how one tactfully asks for MORE merit aid after already receiving a chunk. Can you speak at all on how to navigate that process?