NYU v Penn Forum

[JamMasterJ]

Im hoping someone else could throw me something I didnt think about; I know there is no measurable difference between Penn and NYU recruiting.

My whole dilemma is whether or not living in Manhattan, which would be a once in a lifetime opportunity for me since I want to settle down back in la, is worth the extra ~11,000 each year for three years.

there are ways to live here that are less than 11K per year more.

[HeavenWood]

Im hoping someone else could throw me something I didnt think about; I know there is no measurable difference between Penn and NYU recruiting.

My whole dilemma is whether or not living in Manhattan, which would be a once in a lifetime opportunity for me since I want to settle down back in la, is worth the extra ~11,000 each year for three years.

If you want to work in LA, it's pretty much a wash as far as employment placement goes. If you think living in Manhattan is worth the extra money, go for it.

[WhirledWorld]

There are plenty of people who live for less than $500/mo in Philly and live less than a 30 minute walk from Penn Law.

Granted, New York is New York but you're not going to have time to see too much of the city either way.

[indigomachine]

Im hoping someone else could throw me something I didnt think about; I know there is no measurable difference between Penn and NYU recruiting.

My whole dilemma is whether or not living in Manhattan, which would be a once in a lifetime opportunity for me since I want to settle down back in la, is worth the extra ~11,000 each year for three years.

there are ways to live here that are less than 11K per year more.

This. You get hit on rent, sure; that's an unavoidable increase, but it really shouldn't amount to 11k difference. Everything else comes down to what you do in the city and how much you spend on extra entertainment.

On that note, it also seems silly to simultaneously argue that you won't have time to do anything in the city and that the cost of being in Manhattan, much of which amounts to entertainment (e.g. free-time stuff) when you exclude rent, will be prohibitive when compared to other cities.

Also, assuming you're some weirdo who has a life during law school ( ) and you get to enjoy living in Manhattan, there's plenty of free / cheap fun stuff to do in the city (not to mention law schools frequently provide plenty of school subsidized 'entertainment' of their own).

Having lived in several major cities, I think that the cost differential between NYC and other urban areas is really overblown, in part because Manhattan offers a comparably wider array of places to drop cash than other cities. That doesn't mean you have to go spend money on doing all those things.

tl;dr Manhattan rent = definitely more expensive (but not 11k worth); Manhattan everything else = as expensive as you make it.

[bobbyflayed]

I was working off the COA estimates from each school. The Room and Board is that much cheaper as per the school estimates.

[comeonletsgo]

.

[Aberzombie1892]

Basically, Penn gives you a higher chance of getting an NLJ or Article III job than NYU, and this has generally been the case since the NLJ data has been calculated on a yearly basis. NYU may give you a leg up in Vault 10 firms, but it dramatically increases your chances of having an undesirable job, comparatively speaking. This, if your goal of attending a T14 is to get a desirable job, which it certainly is, Penn over NYU always unless NYU is cheaper (scholarships/live with your parents). If money is not an issue, Penn. Remember that Penn has been a prestigious law school a lot longer than NYU, and it shows in the employment outcomes.

[indigomachine]

Basically, Penn gives you a higher chance of getting an NLJ or Article III job than NYU, and this has generally been the case since the NLJ data has been calculated on a yearly basis. NYU may give you a leg up in Vault 10 firms, but it dramatically increases your chances of having an undesirable job, comparatively speaking. This, if your goal of attending a T14 is to get a desirable job, which it certainly is, Penn over NYU always unless NYU is cheaper (scholarships/live with your parents). If money is not an issue, Penn. Remember that Penn has been a prestigious law school a lot longer than NYU, and it shows in the employment outcomes.

O'rlly?

ETA: not that it actually matters for the discussion, but since you brought up relative prestige over the long term: (rankings over time, back to 1987) http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... ?f=1&t=213

Don't have much of the older data for peer assessment, but pretty sure Penn has been solidly behind NYU for some time now; lawyer/judge assessments put them pretty much in the same group or very close, no?

Unless of course you're talking about lay prestige, in which case, pretty sure G-town beats Sandusky-land and the New York State University.

[Detrox]

Basically, Penn gives you a higher chance of getting an NLJ or Article III job than NYU, and this has generally been the case since the NLJ data has been calculated on a yearly basis. NYU may give you a leg up in Vault 10 firms, but it dramatically increases your chances of having an undesirable job, comparatively speaking. This, if your goal of attending a T14 is to get a desirable job, which it certainly is, Penn over NYU always unless NYU is cheaper (scholarships/live with your parents). If money is not an issue, Penn. Remember that Penn has been a prestigious law school a lot longer than NYU, and it shows in the employment outcomes.

Penn trolling has now reached its zenith. CCPN!

[HeavenWood]

Basically, Penn gives you a higher chance of getting an NLJ or Article III job than NYU, and this has generally been the case since the NLJ data has been calculated on a yearly basis. NYU may give you a leg up in Vault 10 firms, but it dramatically increases your chances of having an undesirable job, comparatively speaking. This, if your goal of attending a T14 is to get a desirable job, which it certainly is, Penn over NYU always unless NYU is cheaper (scholarships/live with your parents). If money is not an issue, Penn. Remember that Penn has been a prestigious law school a lot longer than NYU, and it shows in the employment outcomes.

Penn trolling has now reached its zenith. CCPN!

NYU definitely has the edge over Penn in NYC. Everywhere else, they're pretty much equals.

[bk1]

Granted, New York is New York but you're not going to have time to see too much of the city either way.

It's law school, not prison. I'm not saying whether one should pick NYU or Penn, but you will definitely have time to go out in law school.

[DaleCooper]

NYU definitely has the edge over Penn, Virginia, Berkeley, Duke, Michigan, and Northwestern in NYC, but maybe not Cornell for lots of small reasons that compound nicely for them. Almost everywhere else, they're all pretty much equals. And Georgetown's probably just as good as long as you have ties somewhere and are willing to leave D.C. after graduation if you didn't rock it out.

Fixed your typo.

Also, this:

It's law school, not prison. I'm not saying whether one should pick NYU or Penn, but you will definitely have time to go out in law school.

I've found that I have more time to do cool New York stuff than I have money to do it with. Still, I've managed to get outside of the campus about three times a week and see a bunch of different neighborhoods (and four of the five boroughs). I've been to about four apartment parties, four clubs, five restaurants, and a baseball game since the start of the semester, and I'm not behind in my classes. I'm sure it won't stay that way as we get closer to exams, but it's definitely not a bad life.

[JamMasterJ]

NYU definitely has the edge over Penn, Virginia, Berkeley, Duke, Michigan, and Northwestern in NYC, but maybe not Cornell for lots of small reasons that compound nicely for them. Almost everywhere else, they're all pretty much equals. And Georgetown's probably just as good as long as you have ties somewhere and are willing to leave D.C. after graduation if you didn't rock it out.

Fixed your typo.

Also, this:

It's law school, not prison. I'm not saying whether one should pick NYU or Penn, but you will definitely have time to go out in law school.

I've found that I have more time to do cool New York stuff than I have money to do it with. Still, I've managed to get outside of the campus about three times a week and see a bunch of different neighborhoods (and four of the five boroughs). I've been to about four apartment parties, four clubs, five restaurants, and a baseball game since the start of the semester, and I'm not behind in my classes. I'm sure it won't stay that way as we get closer to exams, but it's definitely not a bad life.

as long as you avoid cabs and midtown bars, you'll be fine

[indigomachine]

as long as you avoid cabs and midtown bars, you'll be fine

Particularly cabs you take halfway back to your place and then walk the rest of the way anyways. (I hereby accept all future couch crashing offers)

[Rahviveh]

OP, you should apply to both RD. Why would you ED? You're basically setting yourself up to pay sticker, which is a bad idea (in my opinion). If you don't get into one (which is highly unlikely) retake and re-apply.

If your primary concern is getting a job, you should probably throw Chicago into the mix. Also, Penn outperforms NYU in employment (research it). The PI stuff is just bullshit, really. This is not to say Penn is better than NYU etc. My main point is to apply RD. You need bargaining power.

You can do the Duke PT thing to calm your nerves, they respond in 10 days.

Definitely agree with RD'ing (again, unless you're set on having at least one of the two).

That said, no idea what it's like at other schools, but I feel like every other person I meet is gunning for some sort of PI. Maybe it's the same at Penn and within a few weeks, all the fuzzy save-the-whales sentiments will evaporate into an unshakeable desire for biglawlz models and bottles (or just bottles...)
In the mean time, NYU PI contingent seems very alive and well here.

(Biglaw gunners do seem to be more quiet about their goals than the PI kids, so maybe that has something to do with it. Less "OMG HUMAN RIGHTS" and more "oh, you know, I'll just see what happens. don't want to close off any options... *cough* biglaw *cough*")

OP has said he wants to come away with at least one of them. RD is definitely a gamble IMO. I don't think he'll get much money from those schools anyways, based on his numbers.

[VUSisterRayVU]

OP has said he wants to come away with at least one of them. RD is definitely a gamble IMO. I don't think he'll get much money from those schools anyways, based on his numbers.

If he RDs, he might get WLed, but he'll get off of one. OP should also apply to other T14s, not to fall back on, but to get scholarship money and leverage it against NYU/Penn. As for employment, really, you're just splitting hairs. It's fun to really break it down and rub one out over some elite statistical analysis, but for all practical purposes, you're splitting hairs.

Don't worry about not getting in RD. You'll get in. And you'll have the chance at money. Unless you're incredibly economically disadvantaged, you won't get that ED.