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I've posed this question to a few people and I'm curious to hear what others think.

Do certain T14s outside of HYSB place especially well in CA? I've been told that Chicago, NU, GULC, and maybe Michigan place better in CA than other T14s. But I've also heard that most non-HYS T14s place well in NY and in their own regions, but in any other secondary markets, they have around the same pull.

I'm from NorCal and would like to practice in LA or the Bay Area. My preference is CA Biglaw > CA Non Biglaw > Biglaw anywhere else > Non Biglaw anywhere else. At this point I'm trying to decide which T14s I would take over UCLA/USC for the best CA placement.

Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks!

None of them place especially well in CA. I would say they are decent. If you really have no desire to work elsewhere (even biglaw), I'd probably take USC/UCLA over lower T14s at equal cost. Having talked to people from UChi, it might be worth it there (or maybe CLS/NYU) but I'm not entirely sure since I didn't look into those schools that much (I had no shot at them).

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You are not necessarily locked out of Boalt with that GPA. I got in with a lower GPA, and a similar initial LSAT. I took the LSAT again a few years later, did much better, and had some work experience that likely helped. If you think you could improve the LSAT, especially if you did not take a prep class the first time, it's worth thinking about a retake.

As to your actual question - I was considering this issue because I wanted SF, and both CLS and NYU seemed to do fairly well there (most people at those schools want to stay in NYC, but I met a lot of people who wanted CA and were successful). However, my guess is you would have a better shot at Boalt than CLS or NYU. I would be hesitant to take a lower T14 over UCLA, given that you want to stay in CA. It's worth applying widely, though, and seeing how things play out with scholarships. Hard to say until you have the whole picture.

yes please people weigh in here--what's the story? Why does OP say "HYSB"--are those the schools that place the best in CA? So B places better than CCN? Sorry if my questions are painfully obvious.

outlookingin wrote:yes please people weigh in here--what's the story? Why does OP say "HYSB"--are those the schools that place the best in CA? So B places better than CCN? Sorry if my questions are painfully obvious.

From what I understand, HYS places relatively well everywhere -- CA included. And I believe B > rest of non-HYS T14 for CA placement.

goden wrote:

outlookingin wrote:yes please people weigh in here--what's the story? Why does OP say "HYSB"--are those the schools that place the best in CA? So B places better than CCN? Sorry if my questions are painfully obvious.

From what I understand, HYS places relatively well everywhere -- CA included. And I believe B > rest of non-HYS T14 for CA placement.

Thanks!

Many CA firms comes to OCI at most T14 schools and have a limited number of interview slots. Some of those students get callbacks, and some of the callbacks turn into offers. Since I am in the middle of OCI at Penn, I have compiled tables on CB/Screener ratio and Offer/callback ratio. You can generally tell that distance market firms give fewer callbacks but generally have a higher offer rate (because of relatively fewer callbacks). Looking at the data, I think most students with CA ties will have some options in CA. I don't really think (at least for Penn) there is really an issue placing in CA.

So I don't really how how to compare placement power in CA since the placement ability doesn't seem to be "limited".

FWIW, I know a couple of people with no solid ties to CA and medianish grades get CA callbacks.

If you have solid CA ties and get decent to good grades at a T14 you should be able to get back to California - but its obviously easiest from HYSB (and then CCN). If you are non-URM your GPA will keep you out of HYS but there are, contrary to popular opinion, high LSAT not-great GPA people at Boalt (though maybe less then elsewhere) - at that point its a crapshoot (really work on your personal statement).

From my experience Boalt has better placement in both Norcal and Socal then any other non-HYS T14 by A MILE. Other then that I'd retake for $ at USC/UCLA. I can say in my experience that I've see a lot more CCN in California then other T14s, also Michigan, Penn, NU then to a lesser extent Georgetown and Cornell...not much Duke, UVa at all. But thats purely anecdotal and I wouldn't choose based on that...for CA big law I'd either stay in CA or go to the highest ranked T14 that gives you the most money.

Also to add to that - I think if you go to school outside California but at a T14 and you have just decent grades but CA ties you might just have to hustle a little more to get back. I spent the summer at a gov agency in CA with people who went to prestigious non-CA schools and while a few top CA firms were coming to their schools they made sure to go to receptions of those who weren't coming to their schools or email partners, mass mail etc. very early to ask for callbacks and had offers before their OCI even happened. I know Boalt people who did the same in markets where few interviewers come (Boston, Chicago etc.) and made the same happen. Moral of the story is - if you go to a great school, have decent grades, and have ties to a market and put yourself in front of people at the right time you will probably get where you need to be.

Friends mom is a senior partner at MSK in LA (midsize but high paying entertainment law; tier 1). Their largest draw was harvard but she listed me like this:

My firm would hire from any of these schools, but you need to be near the top 25 percent from nyu, bolt or upenn, and the top 10 percent from the rest.
If you want to stay in california, I would re number like this:

Boalt
Upenn
NYU
Cornell, Georgetown, Michigan, UCLA,
USC are all the same

NYU was the highest ranked school I asked about.

bobbyflayed wrote:Friends mom is a senior partner at MSK in LA (midsize but high paying entertainment law; tier 1). Their largest draw was harvard but she listed me like this:

My firm would hire from any of these schools, but you need to be near the top 25 percent from nyu, bolt or upenn, and the top 10 percent from the rest.
If you want to stay in california, I would re number like this:

Boalt
Upenn
NYU
Cornell, Georgetown, Michigan, UCLA,
USC are all the same

NYU was the highest ranked school I asked about.

What about UVA, Duke, and Northwestern? Worse than those bottom schools or you didn't ask?

I wasn't down for the south or the midwest so I left those out when I asked.

So am I just interpreting the data really pessimistically or is it tough even for a Berkeley grad to get BigLaw in the Bay Area/Silicon Valley? Is that about 50% odds? If so: damn.

If you have Cali ties and decent grades it shouldn't be a problem from any t14?

outlookingin wrote:So am I just interpreting the data really pessimistically or is it tough even for a Berkeley grad to get BigLaw in the Bay Area/Silicon Valley? Is that about 50% odds? If so: damn.

If getting about half (maybe a bit more) of your class biglaw counts as tough, then yes most lower T14s (including Berkeley) have it tough.

paulinaporizkova wrote:If you have Cali ties and decent grades it shouldn't be a problem from any t14?

I mean that requires decent grades. Callback median for SF/SV firms seems to average out to top 1/3 for lower T14s. Then factor in that class sizes are tiny and you end up with a lot of randomness (in the sense that because they are only looking for maybe 5-10 associates at any given place makes it that much harder for people to receive offers).

I don't really know much about LA. I imagine adding LA to the mix changes the calculus as it's probably at least slightly easier to get a job there. Then you have to deal with ties issues between NorCal and SoCal (some firms will care and some won't).

Top 1/3 at the lower (i.e. non T6) T14 should be able to crack SF/SV with some luck and convincing ties. Top 10% (+ Law Review and convincing ties) should get you in the door at a lot of the top flight Bay Area offices (Gibson, OMM, Quinn, etc) but the most selective offices, i.e. Keker & Van Nest, etc, (that require clerkships or select mostly HYS) probably wouldn't interview you. Below top 1/3, I think you're on riskier footing but absolutely not out of the running, although at that point I think the LA market would be easier to crack than the SF/SV scene, depending on your ties of course.

From personal experience I can say that Michigan places a LOT of people into Bay Area Biglaw - the Michigan/Bay Area connection was even better than I expected, and I've been told it's even stronger in LA. I'm not an expert on the LA market, but I know their hiring class sizes tend to be bigger and many of the firms as less grade selective than SF/SV offices. I can't speak for any other of the lower T14s, or the T6, in regard to CA placement, but I did turn down Boalt for a scholarship to Mich, and while the SF firm I'll be working at next summer certainly does have more Boalt grads than Wolverines, Mich certainly was well represented.

tag

The few people I know from Cornell who wanted SF/SV BigLaw got it.

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Regulus wrote:Kind of related, but not specific to big law:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... &start=629

Thanks!

LSATSCORES2012 wrote:It would be really nice to have access to the percentage of people who TRIED to work in a certain state that were able to find some employment there, regardless of whether or not they opted to actually go with it. Does anyone know of a good place to find that info?

Still nowhere to find this?