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Penn students that want to stay and have ties do exceptionally well, but since Penn mostly self-selects into NYC and DC, competition from Penn students is a relative non-issue. That said, as a larger secondary market, there aren't a whole ton of legal jobs to go around and Philadelphia class sizes tend to be rather small, so Temple/Villanova/RUC/Widener students are still going to have a tough time finding firm jobs.magp90 wrote:Given that Penn is a hop, skip, and a jump away, how well do Temple students do when it comes to finding a job in Philadelphia?
This is probably true. Among that bunch, though, the general feeling, I think, is that Temple has a bit of a leg up. I mean, near as I can tell, every Philly firm has a good deal of Temple people near the top.HeavenWood wrote:Temple/Villanova/RUC/Widener students are still going to have a tough time finding firm jobs.
Temple/Villanova > RU-C >>> WidenerJoeFish wrote:This is probably true. Among that bunch, though, the general feeling, I think, is that Temple has a bit of a leg up. I mean, near as I can tell, every Philly firm has a good deal of Temple people near the top.HeavenWood wrote:Temple/Villanova/RUC/Widener students are still going to have a tough time finding firm jobs.
I've seen this a lot on TLS, but Temple/Villanova/RU-C seem to be in the same ballpark to me (even if you go back into previous years):HeavenWood wrote:Temple/Villanova > RU-C >>> Widener
magp90 wrote:I think the difference between Temple and, say, Villanova is that it has highly ranked individual programs, such as their Trial Advocacy (second in the country) and Legal Writing programs. From what I understand, Nova is just Nova.
tflem's analysis is spot on, as usual. The only difference is that one is in the city and one is out on the Main Line.tfleming09 wrote:magp90 wrote:I think the difference between Temple and, say, Villanova is that it has highly ranked individual programs, such as their Trial Advocacy (second in the country) and Legal Writing programs. From what I understand, Nova is just Nova.
Purty much.InGoodFaith wrote:tflem's analysis is spot on, as usual. The only difference is that one is in the city and one is out on the Main Line.tfleming09 wrote:magp90 wrote:I think the difference between Temple and, say, Villanova is that it has highly ranked individual programs, such as their Trial Advocacy (second in the country) and Legal Writing programs. From what I understand, Nova is just Nova.
RC fail on my part. Temple and Nova are definitely better at placement IN PHILLY.HeavenWood wrote: Purty much.
Also, this is in no way a knock against RU-C, but as a South Jersey school, it does have a bit less of a preestablished pipeline into Philly--not enough that it would be wise to pay much more for Temple/Villanova, but definitely a consideration when all costs are approximately equal.
If we are having an anecdote battle I know multiple small firm lawyers in south jersey / Philly who were not aware of the scandal. If a firm would judge a kid because they suspect that his 161 was actually a 158, that's a bad sign.magp90 wrote:Regardless of the perception of Villanova compared to Temple, I know Villanova graduates who have actually felt the burn when looking for a job of the law school's inaccurate admissions reports to the ABA a couple of years ago. (http://abovethelaw.com/2011/02/villanov ... o-the-aba/)
Applicants have even gotten more scholarships because the school has attempted to get back into the public's good graces. The quality of the education may be comparable to Temple's (though that could be a matter of opinion and specialty), but Villanova's reputation- at least in the very recent past- has been on shakier ground.
Of course it's a bad sign. The only reason I brought up the Villanova scandal was because I know several graduates who have had to deal with it when it came time to look for a job. I'm not looking to generalize the experience; I'm simply stating that it happened, and that the school has sought to better their reputation because of it. The fact that small firms in South Jersey weren't aware of the situation doesn't conflict with that.top30man wrote:If we are having an anecdote battle I know multiple small firm lawyers in south jersey / Philly who were not aware of the scandal. If a firm would judge a kid because they suspect that his 161 was actually a 158, that's a bad sign.magp90 wrote:Regardless of the perception of Villanova compared to Temple, I know Villanova graduates who have actually felt the burn when looking for a job of the law school's inaccurate admissions reports to the ABA a couple of years ago. (http://abovethelaw.com/2011/02/villanov ... o-the-aba/)
Applicants have even gotten more scholarships because the school has attempted to get back into the public's good graces. The quality of the education may be comparable to Temple's (though that could be a matter of opinion and specialty), but Villanova's reputation- at least in the very recent past- has been on shakier ground.
By and large, old reputations die hard, and while I certainly believe that a couple Philly firms (or at least whatever interviewer they may happen to send out that day) may have had their opinion of Villanova soured as a result, in the grand, aggregate scheme of things, Villanova and Temple are still seen as equals.magp90 wrote:Of course it's a bad sign. The only reason I brought up the Villanova scandal was because I know several graduates who have had to deal with it when it came time to look for a job. I'm not looking to generalize the experience; I'm simply stating that it happened, and that the school has sought to better their reputation because of it. The fact that small firms in South Jersey weren't aware of the situation doesn't conflict with that.top30man wrote:If we are having an anecdote battle I know multiple small firm lawyers in south jersey / Philly who were not aware of the scandal. If a firm would judge a kid because they suspect that his 161 was actually a 158, that's a bad sign.magp90 wrote:Regardless of the perception of Villanova compared to Temple, I know Villanova graduates who have actually felt the burn when looking for a job of the law school's inaccurate admissions reports to the ABA a couple of years ago. (http://abovethelaw.com/2011/02/villanov ... o-the-aba/)
Applicants have even gotten more scholarships because the school has attempted to get back into the public's good graces. The quality of the education may be comparable to Temple's (though that could be a matter of opinion and specialty), but Villanova's reputation- at least in the very recent past- has been on shakier ground.
Don't forget Collingswood, Haddonfield, Moorestown, Voorhees...Ende wrote:Also, keep in mind that south jersey, specifically Cherry Hill/Marlton is a great place to work. Cherry Hill has money in it, so don't be fooled into thinking you HAVE to stay in the city to work and make good living. Then again, what constitutes "a good living" can vary from one person to the next.
InGoodFaith wrote:Don't forget Collingswood, Haddonfield, Moorestown, Voorhees...Ende wrote:Also, keep in mind that south jersey, specifically Cherry Hill/Marlton is a great place to work. Cherry Hill has money in it, so don't be fooled into thinking you HAVE to stay in the city to work and make good living. Then again, what constitutes "a good living" can vary from one person to the next.
Good look finding a market paying job in South Jersey... unless you snag Archer. And then I will be forever jelly.Ende wrote:InGoodFaith wrote:Don't forget Collingswood, Haddonfield, Moorestown, Voorhees...Ende wrote:Also, keep in mind that south jersey, specifically Cherry Hill/Marlton is a great place to work. Cherry Hill has money in it, so don't be fooled into thinking you HAVE to stay in the city to work and make good living. Then again, what constitutes "a good living" can vary from one person to the next.
Don't know too much about those areas in terms of jobs, quality of living, so I stuck with what I knew. Washington Twp. is also an area with money.
Besides, I'ven noticed that a lot of people aren't bringing up the "city wage tax" in Philly. Why not live in jersey, work in jersey and not have to worry about the hit on the paycheck?
InGoodFaith wrote:Good look finding a market paying job in South Jersey... unless you snag Archer. And then I will be forever jelly.Ende wrote:InGoodFaith wrote:Don't forget Collingswood, Haddonfield, Moorestown, Voorhees...Ende wrote:Also, keep in mind that south jersey, specifically Cherry Hill/Marlton is a great place to work. Cherry Hill has money in it, so don't be fooled into thinking you HAVE to stay in the city to work and make good living. Then again, what constitutes "a good living" can vary from one person to the next.
Don't know too much about those areas in terms of jobs, quality of living, so I stuck with what I knew. Washington Twp. is also an area with money.
Besides, I'ven noticed that a lot of people aren't bringing up the "city wage tax" in Philly. Why not live in jersey, work in jersey and not have to worry about the hit on the paycheck?
I suppose Princeton has options, but they like to call themselves central Jersey.
Ende wrote:irregardless of where you went to school
Ende wrote:irregardless
Ende wrote:irregardless
Most Princeton big law offices are super small branch offices that don't recruit out of law school.InGoodFaith wrote:Good look finding a market paying job in South Jersey... unless you snag Archer. And then I will be forever jelly.Ende wrote:InGoodFaith wrote:Don't forget Collingswood, Haddonfield, Moorestown, Voorhees...Ende wrote:Also, keep in mind that south jersey, specifically Cherry Hill/Marlton is a great place to work. Cherry Hill has money in it, so don't be fooled into thinking you HAVE to stay in the city to work and make good living. Then again, what constitutes "a good living" can vary from one person to the next.
Don't know too much about those areas in terms of jobs, quality of living, so I stuck with what I knew. Washington Twp. is also an area with money.
Besides, I'ven noticed that a lot of people aren't bringing up the "city wage tax" in Philly. Why not live in jersey, work in jersey and not have to worry about the hit on the paycheck?
I suppose Princeton has options, but they like to call themselves central Jersey.
Good to know, thanks.top30man wrote:Most Princeton big law offices are super small branch offices that don't recruit out of law school.