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Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:58 pm**

I'd appreciate any and all advice you may have for me.

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:00 pm**

What are your numbers?

Please ignore all rankings and focus on job placement. You're not going to get a job in whatever you think international law is. Neither of these schools will get you to NY/DC.

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:09 pm**

Can you post some examples of law firms that specialize in international law?

Thanks

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:14 pm**

Whats yo numbahs?

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:16 pm**

TomahawkChopper wrote:Can you post some examples of law firms that specialize in international law?

Thanks

What is your definition of "international law?" Without a qualifier such as "international criminal defense" or "international mergers and acquisitions," the term is meaningless.

Also, international law is largely a crock. See, e.g., http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Cam ... #section_5

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:18 pm**

GPA: 3.55, LSAT: mid150s.

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:19 pm**

SaintsNation wrote:GPA: 3.55, LSAT: mid150s.

I realize most people view international law in a wide-eyed whimsical perspective of working for the UN or whatnot, and I understand that's not where I'll be competitive from these schools. However, i met people in my previous line of work who have reached chief counsel positions on big foreign affairs committees who were Temple Alumni. Not likely, but doable. Not sure about WashU though.

Would be interested to hear from anyone working in NYC or Philly who graduated from these schools.

Retake, don't waste that GPA and a URM boost on schools that are leaving half of their grads unemployed.

It's not that you can't have a good outcome from these schools, but the deck is stacked against you.

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:27 pm**

I appreciate the advice

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:29 pm**

You need to understand how bad the cards are stacked against you. It's not just a little bit. Read everything on this site.

http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:32 pm**

SaintsNation wrote:I appreciate the advice and I expected to hear I ought to retake, but unfortunately I think I need to start this fall for many reasons.

If the cards are stacked against me though, would be interested to know your perspective on which school would have more favorable odds in the end. I feel like with decent grades, work background, and the language proficiency mentioned, I can be competitive for JAG or something along the lines... unless you have other ideas of paths I ought to be looking at? Don't think I care much about firms, mostly public service/ defense/ policy/ clerkship tracks.

A few things:

1) Why do you need to start this fall? People say this all the time and that's rarely (if ever) the case
2) Though you have good experience/language proficiency, JAG is super, SUPER competitive
3) That's great you think you know what you want to do, but public service/policy/clerkship stuff is going to be much HARDER to get than firm work, not easier.

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:03 pm**

In regards to why this year, its a bit personal and I'd rather not disclose here.

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:09 pm**

rad lulz wrote: See, e.g., http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Cam ... #section_5

awful rhodesian trolling

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:09 pm**

Don't go to law school expecting to transfer.

I know you want to start LS this fall but think about it this way:

Is it more important to you to go to a law school that gives you ~20% max chance at paying back student loans than it is to retake and head to a better school. You have an 80%+ chance at financial failure. There is no gun at your head man, so whats the rush? This isn't college, this isn't something you can jump into because "maybe your path will change down the road". This is a career defining decision, a decision that will either leave you scraping by to pay off your loan interest or a decision that will land you at a better school/better career prospects.

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:11 pm**

SaintsNation wrote:In regards to why this year, its a bit personal and I'd rather not disclose here. I appreciate your help and I realize a degree from a more prestigious school would be a better option, but am hoping that I can still have a shot at one through the transfer option since I was not as successful on my LSAT as I would like to have been.

In regards to public service and JAG both being increasingly competitive, I realize that is the case and that's the reality we're dealing with in today's market. However, I just mentioned them as a passion of mine and I figure if I was going to stand out in one way, it would be the language skill.

I've done ample research on the transparency numbers and am aware of what I'm getting myself into. With only about 58% of FT law positions for graduates from each Temple ans WashU, its a rough track to go down. However, I feel that I can strive to make it through and remain optimistic that it will end favorably in the end. I'm just trying to figure out of the two, if I were to have to choose, what option seems to be better.

Welp, RE: transferring, once again, the odds are stacked against you. You'd have to finish top 10% at Temple and at least top third (maybe higher) from WUSTL. Don't go to a school you wouldn't be happy graduating from.

Your language skills might help you, but JAG is as much of a pipe dream as your other goals, honestly.

If I were you and insistent about going this year I guess I'd go to Temple because it at least opens up one of your target markets. I'd drop out if I finished below median my 1L year.

I'd still recommend retaking, unless you're going to be homeless or something if you don't go to law school or something.

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:13 pm**

SaintsNation wrote:In regards to why this year, its a bit personal and I'd rather not disclose here. I appreciate your help and I realize a degree from a more prestigious school would be a better option, but am hoping that I can still have a shot at one through the transfer option since I was not as successful on my LSAT as I would like to have been.

In regards to public service and JAG both being increasingly competitive, I realize that is the case and that's the reality we're dealing with in today's market. However, I just mentioned them as a passion of mine and I figure if I was going to stand out in one way, it would be the language skill.

I've done ample research on the transparency numbers and am aware of what I'm getting myself into. With only about 58% of FT law positions for graduates from each Temple ans WashU, its a rough track to go down. However, I feel that I can strive to make it through and remain optimistic that it will end favorably in the end. I'm just trying to figure out of the two, if I were to have to choose, what option seems to be better.

Also, this is delusional. I'm not trying to get you down but the real world doesn't give a fuck what your passion is or how optimistic you are. What the real world gives a fuck about is your performance and the real world already has preconceived notions about individual performance.

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:15 pm**

Also dude, keep in mind that you can't just work hard and hustle your way into jobs that aren't even there in the first place.

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:18 pm**

Neither

Have you actually calculated your total debt level at graduation?

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:28 pm**

ru2486 wrote:
rad lulz wrote: See, e.g., http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Cam ... #section_5
awful rhodesian trolling

Ian Smith is not amused by your tomfoolery.

--ImageRemoved--

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:36 pm**

rad lulz wrote:
ru2486 wrote:
rad lulz wrote: See, e.g., http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Cam ... #section_5
awful rhodesian trolling
Ian Smith is not amused by your tomfoolery.

--ImageRemoved--

Ian Smith can suck my Mugabe

/OP retake. Both options are terribad with those debt levels.

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:42 pm**

OP: What background makes you an URM ? Native fluency in Arabic does not equate to URM for law school admission purposes.

Between Temple & WashUStL, neither is a great option for you, but Temple should be much cheaper & closer to large employment areas that might be seeking your linguistic ability. I suspect that English/Arabic fluency should be attractive to JAG as well as to several other federal government employers.
Nevertheless, retaking & reapplying is the best course of action in your situation.

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:42 pm**

If you're native in Arabic you should be going into translation, not law. There is a HUGE demand for native Arabic speakers fluent in English. There are better options for you than these mediocre ones.

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:37 am**

MillerTheThriller wrote:Don't go to law school expecting to transfer.

I know you want to start LS this fall but think about it this way:

Is it more important to you to go to a law school that gives you ~20% max chance at paying back student loans than it is to retake and head to a better school. You have an 80%+ chance at financial failure. There is no gun at your head man, so whats the rush? This isn't college, this isn't something you can jump into because "maybe your path will change down the road". This is a career defining decision, a decision that will either leave you scraping by to pay off your loan interest or a decision that will land you at a better school/better career prospects.

Whole heartedly agree. Do not waste a solid GPA and URM boost on a mediocre LSAT score when I know you can do better. There really is no such thing as "having to go to law school right now." I wish I would've taken everyone's advice, buckled down, taken a year off and worked on retaking my LSAT. Don't shoot yourself in the foot because you're too hasty.

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:53 am**

rickgrimes69 wrote:If you're native in Arabic you should be going into translation, not law. There is a HUGE demand for native Arabic speakers fluent in English. There are better options for you than these mediocre ones.

This. Law school can wait. OP is employable right now and could probably make more money doing Arabic doc review without a law degree than he would out of Temple. It would have to be a pretty special personal reason why you can't take a year off.

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:45 pm**

As a WUSTL student, let me put this as bluntly as possible: do not go to either school at the current cost. You are looking at lots of debt and you have no ties to either region. Also do not go to school planning to transfer. At least here at WUSTL, most of the students are extremely bright, hard working, and credentialed, and assuming a transfer up is just asinine. You should either retake or not go at all. Given your ties, your scholarship totals, your career goals, and your potential (GPA and URM boost), going to either school as it currently stands would be supremely idiotic.

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