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Posted: **Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:21 pm**

At this point I'm thinking I'm equally screwed all 3 ways, because I'm past decision point on reapplying.

Hastings at basically sticker(10k a year)

USC still waitlisted

Previous LSAT 162, GPA 3.7, Asian-reapply by retaking the LSAT? Is it still feasible to make the October LSAT with significant score improvement? I would say I previously put in around 30% effort on the LSAT, only taking about 10/30 recommended practice tests, and only completing maybe 40% of all the test prep materials I had. But the time between now and October is only 2 months, so I don't know if I would need a lot more time.

I'm confident that if I actually put in 15 hrs of concentrated study a week, or overall effort of 90%+, I could improve my score a minimum of 6 more points. I didn't take the LSAT very seriously last time.

However, is this doable in a short timeframe of 2 months? And if not, if assuming that I did get 170+ in December, and added a job at a law firm to my new application, would doing this at this late point in time make me essentially the same applicant, and land me with the same schools/offers?

I think I can do it, but that it might take till December-just not sure whether pulling it off by December is a pointless improvement anyways, or whether it's actually doable by October.

On the other hand, would reapplying to say, Hastings, after withdrawing from admission this year, screw me over? Would Hastings not take me again, because I rejected them this year, and thus I'd be down and out of all law schools?

I want to work in the southern California area, and my preferred schools are USC/UCLA. If by some miraculous result getting a much higher LSAT puts me in contention for, say, Georgetown, I'd go there too(but at this point there isn't that much hope). I originally wanted to take a year off to study abroad on various scholarships, but was rejected from all of them.

Posted: **Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:23 pm**

retake
if not, wait for USC

Posted: **Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:25 pm**

But October or December?

Posted: **Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:30 pm**

best option: start studying for LSAT, and plan to take it in October with a fall back option of December if you still don't perform optimally. Set up a study plan and stick to it and you will improve.

hastings at sticker is career suicide
usc at sticker is a lot of debt

based on what you have said, you can score considerably higher on the LSAT and you haven't demonstrated the kind of discipline you will need to do well in law school, which is another reason why retake/reapply is TCR.

Posted: **Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:32 pm**

fadedsunrise wrote:I'm confident that if I actually put in 15 hrs of concentrated study a week, or overall effort of 90%+, I could improve my score a minimum of 6 more points. I didn't take the LSAT very seriously last time.

Retake.

However, is this doable in a short timeframe of 2 months? And if not, if assuming that I did get 170+ in December, and added a job at a law firm to my new application, would doing this at this late point in time make me essentially the same applicant, and land me with the same schools/offers?

I think I can do it, but that it might take till December-just not sure whether pulling it off by December is a pointless improvement anyways, or whether it's actually doable by October.

Start studying soon for October. Re-evaluate if you don't start improving by mid-September.

You will be a different application with a job and a better LSAT score.

Posted: **Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:34 pm**

Definitely retake. You are being robbed at that price for Hastings.

Posted: **Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:56 pm**

What's TCR? *Not very familiar with acronyms*

Posted: **Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:32 pm**

Retake.

Plan for October, and if you get USC (unlikely this late in the summer) then reconsider. Still, if you can get a 168, as you say, then you are looking at much better options. I'd probably retake no matter what, then reapply and get Money from USC, UCLA, and maybe get into Boalt if you can get 170+

Posted: **Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:38 pm**

fadedsunrise wrote:What's TCR? *Not very familiar with acronyms*

the credited response.... get on your lsat game playa!

Posted: **Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:56 pm**

As everyone else has said, retake. Do not for a moment consider going to Hastings at sticker. If that ends up being your only option, do not attend law school at this time.

fadedsunrise wrote:And if not, if assuming that I did get 170+ in December, and added a job at a law firm to my new application, would doing this at this late point in time make me essentially the same applicant, and land me with the same schools/offers?

No. You are drastically overestimating the benefit (to non-splitters) of applying early, especially when we're talking about applying in early November versus applying in early January. It certainly exists, but not to a degree even remotely comparable to 8+ points on the LSAT. Aim for October, but be willing to wait until December if you feel you are likely to improve by even two or three points with another two months of study.

Posted: **Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:02 pm**

Jah'rakal wrote:retake
if not, wait for USC

Posted: **Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:08 pm**

Retake! Your GPA has you into every school except for HYS with a good enough LSAT. Retake, enjoy a much better school, and be happy.

Posted: **Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:17 am**

Hi guys!

I have a followup question to my initial. If I were to retake but not be successful with getting a much higher LSAT, and end up reapplying to Hastings, hypothetically-would Hastings hold a grudge against me for having withdrawn and reapplying? Would it hurt my chances of getting readmitted? Or would I be able to get in based on the fact that I got in before? Do I ask Hastings now about the possibility, or withdraw and not say anything now but mention it in an addendum upon reapplying?

And how does reapplying work in terms of letters of rec and personal statement? It is my understanding that you must write a new personal statement, but are letters of rec stored?

Posted: **Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:53 am**

I have a followup question to my initial. If I were to retake but not be successful with getting a much higher LSAT, and end up reapplying to Hastings, hypothetically-would Hastings hold a grudge against me for having withdrawn and reapplying? Would it hurt my chances of getting readmitted? Or would I be able to get in based on the fact that I got in before? Do I ask Hastings now about the possibility, or withdraw and not say anything now but mention it in an addendum upon reapplying?

Either way, it's worth your time to retake. If you do better, they'll welcome your better stats and will probably give you more money. If you don't, well, you honestly shouldn't attend Hastings at the price you'd be paying anyway.

Posted: **Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:40 am**

In your situation, I would say go to Hastings unless you really strongly are sure you want to live in Southern California.

Hastings will probably take you back when you reapply next year, but since Hastings/Davis aren't known for giving much in the way of 1L scholarships, there's probably no point in giving up a year of your life to waiting.

Posted: **Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:52 am**

apollo2015 wrote:~~there's probably no point in giving up a year of your life to waiting.~~

OP didnt peak on the LSAT. A handful of points will open up USC/UCLA and bigger scholarships to UC-I/D/H. Nearly 200k debt for UC-H is a bad idea.

fadedsunrise wrote: I have a followup question to my initial. If I were to retake but not be successful with getting a much higher LSAT, and end up reapplying to Hastings, hypothetically-would Hastings hold a grudge against me for having withdrawn and reapplying? Would it hurt my chances of getting readmitted? Or would I be able to get in based on the fact that I got in before? Do I ask Hastings now about the possibility, or withdraw and not say anything now but mention it in an addendum upon reapplying?

And how does reapplying work in terms of letters of rec and personal statement? It is my understanding that you must write a new personal statement, but are letters of rec stored?

When you withdraw, just tell UC-H that you will not be attending law school this fall and will be reapplying next cycle. They wont hold it against you. You dont have to write a new PS, but you might as well at least tweak it. Surely you have gained some new insight over the past year.

Posted: **Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:34 pm**

apollo2015 wrote:In your situation, I would say go to Hastings unless you really strongly are sure you want to live in Southern California.

Hastings will probably take you back when you reapply next year, but since Hastings/Davis aren't known for giving much in the way of 1L scholarships, there's probably no point in giving up a year of your life to waiting.

Horrible advice. Ignore.

Posted: **Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:54 pm**

Hastings is not worth sticker. If you don't want to retake the LSAT, go to a lower ranked school on scholarship. Hastings' placement is like that of a T2, only at a T14 price. I'd retake if I were you, and try to get into USC or UCLA.

<-- 2012 Hastings grad

Posted: **Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:12 am**

I am still not fully convinced that I can do better by shooting for the LSAT increase. Granted, it is extremely hard in real life right now with everyone I know of the opinion that I should suck it up and go to Hastings, because I would only lose out on a good opportunity for USC not being that much better. They think that if I was HYS material and this chance to retake is the thing I needed to get into HYS, then I am gaining something. Clearly, unless I got a 180 with a retake a 3.7/none amazing softs wont' make me HYS material. Even with a 180 it probably still wont. Otherwise, I am only losing.

I want to retake, but not at the price of my parents threatening to cut me off financially for it(which they have), and without student loans to cover my living expenses.

Yes, I'm a baby, let the flaming begin for my not having a spinal cord, but after the flames have burned off are there any fact pages I can show everyone else in my life(all naysayers) that I am actually right?

Let the flames commence.

Posted: **Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:01 am**

fadedsunrise wrote:I am still not fully convinced that I can do better by shooting for the LSAT increase. Granted, it is extremely hard in real life right now with everyone I know of the opinion that I should suck it up and go to Hastings, because I would only lose out on a good opportunity for USC not being that much better. They think that if I was HYS material and this chance to retake is the thing I needed to get into HYS, then I am gaining something. Clearly, unless I got a 180 with a retake a 3.7/none amazing softs wont' make me HYS material. Even with a 180 it probably still wont. Otherwise, I am only losing.

I want to retake, but not at the price of my parents threatening to cut me off financially for it(which they have), and without student loans to cover my living expenses.

Yes, I'm a baby, let the flaming begin for my not having a spinal cord, but after the flames have burned off are there any fact pages I can show everyone else in my life(all naysayers) that I am actually right?

Let the flames commence.

You have a 3.7

You have a 162 after not really preparing much

You want to work in SoCal

You are wait listed at USC

You have a small scholarship to Hastings

Under these circumstances, going to Hastings instead of retaking the LSAT is a terrible idea, full stop. If it might help, tell your parents a law professor who studies this stuff for a living says so, and anybody in the business who says differently is either an idiot or lying. There is a huge difference between Hastings and USC, especially if you want to work in southern California.

Also, it makes no difference to your prospects next cycle if you retake in October or December, so don't worry about that.

Posted: **Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:21 am**

fadedsunrise wrote:I am still not fully convinced that I can do better by shooting for the LSAT increase. Granted, it is extremely hard in real life right now with everyone I know of the opinion that I should suck it up and go to Hastings, because I would only lose out on a good opportunity for USC not being that much better. They think that if I was HYS material and this chance to retake is the thing I needed to get into HYS, then I am gaining something. Clearly, unless I got a 180 with a retake a 3.7/none amazing softs wont' make me HYS material. Even with a 180 it probably still wont. Otherwise, I am only losing.

I want to retake, but not at the price of my parents threatening to cut me off financially for it(which they have), and without student loans to cover my living expenses.

Yes, I'm a baby, let the flaming begin for my not having a spinal cord, but after the flames have burned off are there any fact pages I can show everyone else in my life(all naysayers) that I am actually right?

Let the flames commence.

Dude, there is a world between Hastings at sticker and what you could be looking at with say, a 170. All of the T14 minus HYS are in play, including many prestigious Ivy schools that make the neighbors jelly. Boalt, probably with money. USC/UCLA with money. Hastings/Davis/Irvine, maybe for free.

Tell your parents that an 8 point bump, totally doable with a year's sustained prep, could potentially be worth 75K or more in scholarship money. Add that to whatever you can make during the year you take time off and you could be looking at an effective six-figure salary for that year. Which, I'll add, is much more that you will likely be making out of Hastings.

And if not, don't go. Find roommates, take a crappy job or two, and study for the LSAT. Your parents won't be taking out the 200K in debt, won't be hamstringing their life for 20 years while they struggle to make payments, and have no idea what the job market is like for lawyers.

Posted: **Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:41 am**

timbs4339 wrote:
fadedsunrise wrote:I am still not fully convinced that I can do better by shooting for the LSAT increase. Granted, it is extremely hard in real life right now with everyone I know of the opinion that I should suck it up and go to Hastings, because I would only lose out on a good opportunity for USC not being that much better. They think that if I was HYS material and this chance to retake is the thing I needed to get into HYS, then I am gaining something. Clearly, unless I got a 180 with a retake a 3.7/none amazing softs wont' make me HYS material. Even with a 180 it probably still wont. Otherwise, I am only losing.

I want to retake, but not at the price of my parents threatening to cut me off financially for it(which they have), and without student loans to cover my living expenses.

Yes, I'm a baby, let the flaming begin for my not having a spinal cord, but after the flames have burned off are there any fact pages I can show everyone else in my life(all naysayers) that I am actually right?

Let the flames commence.
Dude, there is a world between Hastings at sticker and what you could be looking at with say, a 170. All of the T14 minus HYS are in play, including many prestigious Ivy schools that make the neighbors jelly. Boalt, probably with money. USC/UCLA with money. Hastings/Davis/Irvine, maybe for free.

Tell your parents that an 8 point bump, totally doable with a year's sustained prep, could potentially be worth 75K or more in scholarship money. Add that to whatever you can make during the year you take time off and you could be looking at an effective six-figure salary for that year. Which, I'll add, is much more that you will likely be making out of Hastings.

And if not, don't go. Find roommates, take a crappy job or two, and study for the LSAT. Your parents won't be taking out the 200K in debt, won't be hamstringing their life for 20 years while they struggle to make payments, and have no idea what the job market is like for lawyers.

Agree with all this. Taking out loans so you can live for a year is foolish when you could better spend your time and money actually preparing for this test. You can improve your score. You should do that.

Be grown up here. If they are going to cut you off then move out, you will convince them that you mean what you are saying.

I have to say I am surprised by the number of parents who come up with this "go to law school now or else" threat. I can see that working for some kids who need motivation, but it doesn't sound like the parents are willing to listen. Parents need to understand the commitment of law school in times of money and time and how likely it is that going to a school like Hastings with a small scholarship is a waste of both.

At the same time, college grads should be able to figure out a job and a way to live, even if it isn't glamourous. You don't have to rely on your parents. You might have to take a couple of jobs that you don't want to take, but you can live on your own with roommates. You are not dependent on your parents.

You and your parents are overestimating the jobs you can get out of OCI or as a grad out of Hastings. Your parents probably don't know anything about the mandatory curve and probably assume you will do very well there. Show them the employment statistics.

Posted: **Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:21 pm**

Thank you all.

Posted: **Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:38 am**

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