T-30 School Value Forum

[Elston Gunn]

Here is the trick to making a T30 law school worth the value. . . it is harder than it seems. The tricky part ― secure an SA position that pays good $$. This is achievable even before your first exam grade is released. Once you are IN the odds are very much in your favor of securing an offer. At that point, the importance of grades are neutralized (although poor grades could cause you to stress). I blew my BL V-10 SA interview but two friends made it through, and even though their grades are pedestrian, they are golden. If you want to avoid the hassle of OCI and grade anxiety. . . do everything you can to get an SA interview ― then bring the passion.

Yeah, bro, kids from my high school used to go to IU-B and get 1L SA's all the time.

EDIT: Sorry, that was douchey. What school was this at, and what were you and your friends backgrounds (WE + connections) prior to law school?

At a lot of these places only about 10-20% of people get *2L SAs*, so I'd be shocked if any decent percentage could get a 1L SA without even having grades.

[BmoreOrLess]

lol @ UCLA being worth sticker... or UT and Vandy being worth what is practically sticker...

lol @ GeorgeTTTown being worth sticker

lol @ GW being worth $220k+

[Pate]

I'd be shocked if any decent percentage could get a 1L SA without even having grades.

Now sure about the % stats, what I can say first hand is this.

My 1L SA interview occurred before I had grades. Whether the firm has a way to see grades before they are officially released, hard to know. I will say that my first set of grades were on par with my friends, who nailed their interview. I thought this interview would be a great way to gain interview experience ― that was literally the dumbest thought ever. This interview turns out to be The defining moment. Using a Tom Cruise line, you win the interview you are UP HERE, you lose, you are DOWN THERE. UP HERE, great summer $$ and knowing that you have broken from the pack. DOWN THERE, keep stressing about grades and OCI.

This is not about gaining interview experience. This has everything to do with bringing the passion (or whatever magical ingredient one can muster).

[Elston Gunn]

What school was this at, and what were you and your friends backgrounds (WE + connections) prior to law school?

[Teflon_Jeff]

OP: Simpler method below:

Step 1. Figure out acceptable debt load for school X. Label it Y

Step 2. Use the following Formula:
**(3 Years Tuition) + (3 Year's Cost of Living) - (3 year Scholarship total) = Z

Step 3. If Y > Z, Attend school.

[RodneyBoonfield]

This post illustrates my analogy for TLS which is as follows:

Unemployment data, go to schools, etc= The Dude
TLSers that base everything off rankings= Donny
All other TLSers= Walter

Walter: Were you listening to the dudes story Donny?
Donny: I was bowling
Walter: you have no frame of reference here Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know...

[flem]

This post illustrates my analogy for TLS which is as follows:

Unemployment data, go to schools, etc= The Dude
TLSers that base everything off rankings= Donny
All other TLSers= Walter

Walter: Were you listening to the dudes story Donny?
Donny: I was bowling
Walter: you have no frame of reference here Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know...

180 for obvious reasons

[BmoreOrLess]

This post illustrates my analogy for TLS which is as follows:

Unemployment data, go to schools, etc= The Dude
TLSers that base everything off rankings= Donny
All other TLSers= Walter

Walter: Were you listening to the dudes story Donny?
Donny: I was bowling
Walter: you have no frame of reference here Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know...

To continue with this:

The Dude: It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Donny: I am the walrus.
The Dude: You know what I'm trying to say...
Donny: I am the walrus.
Walter Sobchak: That fucking bitch...
The Dude: Oh yeah!
Donny: I am the walrus.
Walter Sobchak: Shut the fuck up, Donny! V.I. Lenin. Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov!
Donny: What the fuck is he talking about, Dude?

[BmoreOrLess]

and now the dude as American tax payers with the same Donny:

[JCFindley]

This post illustrates my analogy for TLS which is as follows:

Unemployment data, go to schools, etc= The Dude
TLSers that base everything off rankings= Donny
All other TLSers= Walter

Walter: Were you listening to the dudes story Donny?
Donny: I was bowling
Walter: you have no frame of reference here Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know...

180 for obvious reasons

I am naming my next dog, "The Dude." I need to go repurchase that dvd as I seem to have lost my copy and have a sudden need to watch it again.

(caveat; if the dog is a female it will be named Meg. That way when it barks too much I can say, "Shut up Meg!")

[ilovelawtays]

So many lols in this thread.

[Aberzombie1892]

I think the best approach would be the top down approach, while not taking into account living expenses.

For example:

HYSCC(NP) are the strongest law schools period. Thus, they are worth sticker, which presumably would be about $150,000 in total tuition ($50,000 tuition X 3). The rest of the T14, minus HYSCC(NP) and GTown, would be worth marginally less than that, so around $120,000-$130,000 in total tuition. GTown, along with the rest of the T18, would be worth marginally less than that, so around $100,000 in total tuition.

All other law schools are worth less than $100K worth of tuition. However, it is difficult to actually assign numbers at this point as the rankings no longer matter and so the issue comes down to regional reputation and placement in long term, full time JD required/preferred jobs more than NLJ 250 rankings (See BC or BU, whichever one it was). Generally, almost all T3/T4 schools are worth less than $50,000 in total tuition - not merely because of their rank, but because of their placement as a result of them not being premier schools in their region (or their region being extremely small, which would negate the fact that they are the premier schools in their region).

This, to me, seems to make more sense than to arbitrarily assign dollar values to each school, as that means someone has too much time.

[dingbat]

I think the best approach would be the top down approach, while not taking into account living expenses.

For example:

HYSCC(NP) are the strongest law schools period. Thus, they are worth sticker, which presumably would be about $150,000 in total tuition ($50,000 tuition X 3). The rest of the T14, minus HYSCC(NP) and GTown, would be worth marginally less than that, so around $120,000-$130,000 in total tuition. GTown, along with the rest of the T18, would be worth marginally less than that, so around $100,000 in total tuition.

All other law schools are worth less than $100K worth of tuition. However, it is difficult to actually assign numbers at this point as the rankings no longer matter and so the issue comes down to regional reputation and placement in long term, full time JD required/preferred jobs more than NLJ 250 rankings (See BC or BU, whichever one it was). Generally, almost all T3/T4 schools are worth less than $50,000 in total tuition - not merely because of their rank, but because of their placement as a result of them not being premier schools in their region (or their region being extremely small, which would negate the fact that they are the premier schools in their region).

This, to me, seems to make more sense than to arbitrarily assign dollar values to each school, as that means someone has too much time.

Allowing for variations due to personal risk preference and financial ability, this is a very credited response, except I'd say that any T3/T4 that is not a premier school in its region is probably not worth any tuition and should only be considered if free

[Pate]

I think the best approach would be the top down approach, while not taking into account living expenses.

For example:

HYSCC(NP) are the strongest law schools period. Thus, they are worth sticker, which presumably would be about $150,000 in total tuition ($50,000 tuition X 3). The rest of the T14, minus HYSCC(NP) and GTown, would be worth marginally less than that, so around $120,000-$130,000 in total tuition. GTown, along with the rest of the T18, would be worth marginally less than that, so around $100,000 in total tuition.

All other law schools are worth less than $100K worth of tuition. However, it is difficult to actually assign numbers at this point as the rankings no longer matter and so the issue comes down to regional reputation and placement in long term, full time JD required/preferred jobs more than NLJ 250 rankings (See BC or BU, whichever one it was). Generally, almost all T3/T4 schools are worth less than $50,000 in total tuition - not merely because of their rank, but because of their placement as a result of them not being premier schools in their region (or their region being extremely small, which would negate the fact that they are the premier schools in their region).

Agreed, IF good grades (top third) are part of the equation. A bit more dicey with median grades. Below median, it becomes a much tougher sell ― although CC[NP] probably gives one a leg up on getting lucky. No clue what the odds of surviving if one is stuck at the bottom 20-25%.

In some threads you will read that there are 3Ls applying at job fairs, and other threads claim people at the lower grade level are still securing Big Law.