Decision time Forum
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Decision time
I'm down to the wire, University of San Francisco(free for the first year, 14K per year after that) v. Catholic U(completely free for all three years). I have a slight west coast preference but I'm also interested in what DC has to offer. Also very interested in the securities institute at CUA. Any thoughts?..............
- Samara
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Re: Decision time
TCR is to go to neither and/or retake the LSAT. But, if you are going to insist on going, do Catholic.
What are the stipulations are on the scholarship?
What are the stipulations are on the scholarship?
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Re: Decision time
No plans to retake the LSAT, I'm going this year. There are no GPA requirements to keep my Scholly at CUA(yellow ribbon).
- noleknight16
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Re: Decision time
Both schools are trash. But I guess as long as Catholic is completely free it can work.
- Samara
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Re: Decision time
Well, you should retake, but I don't feel like arguing about it.joecham wrote:No plans to retake the LSAT, I'm going this year. There are no GPA requirements to keep my Scholly at CUA(yellow ribbon).
A full-ride with no stips, isn't the worst idea, even at Catholic. What about living expenses? You could easily end up with $60k of debt by graduation, even with tuition covered. Just know that unemployment is a very possible outcome from Catholic and that biglaw or other similarly desirable jobs will be acquired by less than 10% of the class.
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Re: Decision time
noleknight16, wow that was constructive........
Samara, living expenses are 100% covered. I realize that biglaw only looks at the top performers, that is not necessarily the end all be all for me, I wouldn't even mind government work.
Samara, living expenses are 100% covered. I realize that biglaw only looks at the top performers, that is not necessarily the end all be all for me, I wouldn't even mind government work.
- Dr. Review
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Re: Decision time
joecham wrote:I wouldn't even mind government work.
- Samara
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Re: Decision time
Okay, so all you're losing is opportunity cost. That's not so bad. Just be realistic about your possibilities and know that far greater opportunities exist at better schools. For c/o 2010, a full quarter of the class failed to secure full-time employment. Good federal gov't jobs are hard to come by these days; they shouldn't be looked at as a backup option.joecham wrote:noleknight16, wow that was constructive........
Samara, living expenses are 100% covered. I realize that biglaw only looks at the top performers, that is not necessarily the end all be all for me, I wouldn't even mind government work.
- Nova
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Re: Decision time
Samara wrote:TCR is to go to neither and/or retake the LSAT.
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Re: Decision time
They're both bad options. You're talking about schools in attractive markets that have a ton of other law schools/out of market people trying to break in.
The better idea for you would be to go to a similarly ranked school in an area of the country without much competition.
As for your government backup- DOJ is hiring less than 40 people TOTAL. Second, you do realize that good students at top 50 schools want those jobs for the loan forgiveness plan, right?
The better idea for you would be to go to a similarly ranked school in an area of the country without much competition.
As for your government backup- DOJ is hiring less than 40 people TOTAL. Second, you do realize that good students at top 50 schools want those jobs for the loan forgiveness plan, right?
- noleknight16
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Re: Decision time
You asked for thoughts and I gave you my thoughts. Catholic for free isn't the worst option in the world, but both schools are trash in this legal market.joecham wrote:noleknight16, wow that was constructive........
Samara, living expenses are 100% covered. I realize that biglaw only looks at the top performers, that is not necessarily the end all be all for me, I wouldn't even mind government work.
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Re: Decision time
ok....got it, if you don't get into a top law school then you are a dumbass and you shouldn't go to law school. Don't get me wrong I appreciate the free advice, constructive or otherwise. I realize that the public sector is also competative right now, I have some contacts and background that lends itself to that market.
- prezidentv8
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Re: Decision time
I'd like to propose a slight modification to this.
Samara wrote:Half-decentGoodfederalgov't jobs are hard to come by these days; they shouldn't be looked at as a backup option.
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- prezidentv8
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Re: Decision time
Not this. The correct statement is more like: "if you don't get into a top law school then you most likely won't be getting a full time legal job with any kind of reasonable salary. So just be aware of that, and avoid debt if at all possible if you still insist on going."joecham wrote:ok....got it, if you don't get into a top law school then you are a dumbass and you shouldn't go to law school. Don't get me wrong I appreciate the free advice, constructive or otherwise. I realize that the public sector is also competative right now, I have some contacts and background that lends itself to that market.
- noleknight16
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Re: Decision time
No I'm not saying that at all. I'm not even going to be attending a top law school this fall (in-state Tier1). I'm saying that don't expect a good job out of Catholic or SF in this legal market. They aren't good options.joecham wrote:ok....got it, if you don't get into a top law school then you are a dumbass and you shouldn't go to law school. Don't get me wrong I appreciate the free advice, constructive or otherwise. I realize that the public sector is also competative right now, I have some contacts and background that lends itself to that market.
- Nova
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Re: Decision time
No one is saying that.joecham wrote:ok....got it, if you don't get into a top law school then you are a dumbass and you shouldn't go to law school.
Both schools give you less that a 44% chance of gaining long term, full time, legal employment by nine months after graduation. If you arent employed at that point, it is very unlikely you will ever be able to gain JD required long term full time employment.
Catholics stats are better, and its free. Go there, I guess. But the best option is far and away to retake the LSAT.
LST: Catholic wrote:43.7% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs. This figure includes no school-funded jobs..
78.9% graduates were employed in long-term jobs.
79.3% graduates were employed in full-time jobs.
--LinkRemoved--LST; USF wrote:34.2% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs. This figure includes no school-funded jobs..
53.6% graduates were employed in long-term jobs.
55% graduates were employed in full-time jobs.
--LinkRemoved--
Last edited by Nova on Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- ggocat
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Re: Decision time
Samara wrote:What are the stipulations are on the scholarship?
Based on this exchange, I'm assuming there is a GPA requirement for San Francisco. Therefore, Catholic is a much better choice.joecham wrote:There are no GPA requirements to keep my Scholly at CUA(yellow ribbon).
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Re: Decision time
Understood...... the legal market is not great. Let me rephrase the question, does anybody have first hand experience with USF or CUA? or the markets in DC or san fran? I can also read USNWR and LST, I'm looking for new information based on experience, maybe I'm in the wrong place.....
- Nova
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Re: Decision time
Wait, so you KNEW that USF only places 1/3 of its class in long term, full time, JD required, legal employment... and you are still considering attending?
PFFFF
Go ahead.
PFFFF
Go ahead.
- prezidentv8
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Re: Decision time
joecham wrote:Understood...... the legal market is not great. Let me rephrase the question, does anybody have first hand experience with USF or CUA? or the markets in DC or san fran? I can also read USNWR and LST, I'm looking for new information based on experience, maybe I'm in the wrong place.....
Yes. Both markets are absolutely saturated.
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Re: Decision time
PFFFF.....ok, let me ask you you this, do any of you have full time, JD required jobs? or do you have a full time gig poo pooing law schools. It's a week day for christ sake
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- prezidentv8
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Re: Decision time
No job, studying for bar.joecham wrote:PFFFF.....ok, let me ask you you this, do any of you have full time, JD required jobs? or do you have a full time gig poo pooing law schools. It's a week day for christ sake
Edit: So yes, that means I stare at my computer all day every day til the end of July.
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Re: Decision time
well good luck to you, I'm not being sarcastic I appreciate the candor.
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Re: Decision time
I don't understand how this happens over and over and over on these forums. People come with 2 options that have a negative expected value relative to opportunity costs (or worse if they're not on a full ride) and then get pissy when people try to dissuade them from throwing away time/money. Taking a year to save up money/get work experience/potentially increase your probability of obtaining a good job does not seem like that hard of a pill to swallow.
OP: The markets you asked about are incredibly saturated and you'll be competing with people at substantially better schools. The likelihood of obtaining a full-time legal position at all in those areas is low; the likelihood of obtaining a good full-time legal position is terrible.
OP: The markets you asked about are incredibly saturated and you'll be competing with people at substantially better schools. The likelihood of obtaining a full-time legal position at all in those areas is low; the likelihood of obtaining a good full-time legal position is terrible.
- prezidentv8
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Re: Decision time
Sure. Just make sure you educate yourself - thoroughly - before making any decisions.joecham wrote:well good luck to you, I'm not being sarcastic I appreciate the candor.
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